Regarding the conversation on Lunokhod and other Soviet imagery: Don Mitchell's pages have the best coverage of this stuff I've ever seen. I had never seen images from the lunar sample return vehicles before.

It's undoubtably hard to find, but there is a considerably detailed <for the soviets> source on the first Lunokhod. I have a "Joint Publications Research Service" JPRS 54525, 22 November 1971 translated reprint of: "'Lunokhod -1' -- Mobie Lunar Laboratory - USSR -" (punctuation is exact), put out by the Department of Commerce for (to me) unimaginable reasons, instead of a NASA Technical Translation series report. 189 pages with references and really grayish images (bleh.).

The science return from the Lunokhod missions was pretty thin, compared with the American Surveyor Lunar Landers. A large part of that was due to the skill and capability of the science teams on the Surveyor missions, despite the fact that the Surveyors were purely engineering missions. (Surveyors 8 - 14, the science missions, were cancelled because of cost, program delays, and because Apollo was about to fly.) Big university engineering or aerospace libraries may still <should?> still have the JPL Technical Report series publications in the Surveyors, which included 3 volumes: Mission Report, Science Report, and Television Images, for each of the successful missions. I still mentally stick voodoo pins in the jerk who probably borrowed JPL-TR-32-1023 Surveyor 1 Science Results and later claimed to have never borrowed it.

You can download the Mission Report here:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntr..._1969027073.pdf
( dial-up warning: 30 mb! )

Horrible image quality though. Can't find the other two. Might be on that site too, but since there's no index it's kinda hard (tedious) to find it.

Opportunity drove again today:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu:16080/mars/opp...KJP1211L0M1.JPG

Believe it or not, this was another historic drive, because........
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/pre...ZE_A-B016R1.jpg
Oppy is now for the first time outside the DIMES mosaic!!!

http://spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/050315minites.html

Nothing to worry about.

http://pages.preferred.com/%7Etedstryk/lunokhod2.html

I put up a few more Lunokhod 2 images from my archive.

Another way of looking at it.

Wow, Ted, a lot of cool images on your site! I didn't even know we received that many images from the old Soviet Mars missions. Please keep up the great work and post to the forum whenever you do an update.

Cheers,
Aldo.

Thanks. I have a lot more material. It is just a matter of finding time to process it. The Mars 4/5 page is in biggest need of an overhaul.

Have we, indeed, left Vostok? How far past it are we?

Alan, seems to me that Victoria maybe is beginning to show herself just where there is the 'bumpy' horizon. I guess its rim is at least twice the height of the rim of Endurance. Victoria is now roughly at a distance of twice/thrice that of Endurance, and E. is still visible. Looking at Victoria in orbital pictures gives the impression of the rim being quite jagged (I mean also vertically ), so perhaps we really can see some jags of the nearside.
Regarding the black markings of 'Albert', it seems to me that they are quite near already. Could they be a group of craters or dark coating at some hundreds of meters distance?

Nuh uh,

We're about 1km south of Endurance. Victoria is a further 5km away



Doug

Any thoughts on how far is the maximum that Opportunity could travel in one day. I know it is breaking its own records lately since the software update, but I guess what I am getting at, is just how quick she could travel say....1km?

Also, first post here.....looks like a great site, plan to come by often.

OTH

Well - Opportunity has done 390 metres in one 3 day period. Given that allowing for stop-offs and days of downlinking autonav data - I think it's fair to say that - flat out with no interuptions - it could do that once every week - so 1km is a 1 month program

Doug

Why downlink autonav data? Just delete it right away

I believe the navigation images are downloaded so that the staff can figure out if anything went wrong, ways to improve the process.. also, I would imagine that these are the only pictures they have of what they passed along the way.

I used the long term route plan to estimate the distance (could not found the link any more). Seemingly I put Opp slightly too much south of Vostok. But I stick to my 'thrice' the distance to Endurance estimate. Victoria can not be much farther than that currently.

Actualy - you're right - I had Vostok a little further north in my head.

If I swivle my chair around, on my wall on a piece of epson panorama paper mounted in a portrait orientation - I have my http://moc.rlproject.com image printed - and I'm drawing the route on in silver pen as we go along.

From the exit of End to Vost is 10.5cm

From Vost to the gap in the Gate Post craters is 12

Gate Post to easter edge of Albert is 8

Then 16 more to Vic

So thats 10.5 down - 36 to go

Actually - I should take a photo of it and the other mars STUFF in my office Pics of Beagle 2 being built, MOC images on panorama paper - and two 54 x 18 inch panoramas ( The central part of the Lion King Pan, and the part of the Clovis pan looking back toward Bonne )

Add that to the lego MER rover, the hot wheels Sojourner and modified Pathfinder ( I put foil on the heatshield to make it more realistic ) and it's a mars fest in here. Heck - The walls are sort of mars coloured and theres a fine layer of dust around the place - but that's probably down to the sanding I've been doing of resin parts for a model of Bluebird CN7 I'm building. Land Speed Records are my other passion Other pictures include a pic of Thrust SSC signed by Andy Green, a photo of my other half who is about to get on a plane and fly home after a 3 day girley holiday in NYC, a lot of mess, and two tickets from the '03 Goodwood Festival of Speed - one signed by Derek Bell, the other by John Surtees. Oh - and a frame with a steering wheel and pedals for racing sims on the PC

Dragging it all back on topic a smidge


That tiny MOC image would suggest that actually - we're going to be climbing ever so slightly all the way to Victoria - only for Victoria to show all the strata we've seen back at End/Eagle and little if any more than that. If you consider Endurance - it's only the top half to two thirds of the depth of the crater that shows exposed material - the rest is noisey infill thereafter. I wonder if Vic will be the same.

Things get very interesting another 6-10k SE of there though.

Doug

Of course, we might find stuff from farther down lying around as ejecta as Oppy gets close to Victoria, even if the layers are burried in the crater.

Something yet: I noticed that the large orb pic of the 'etched terrain' and the composite picture someone made comparing End and Vic probably form a stereo pair where they overlap around the western rim of Victoria. (The large map is for left eye.) Sorry I don't have any decent software for making that to show in one picture. It's quite difficult to see, because the etch-terr map is a bit distorted (i.e. not made to any projection?). The 3-D effect is a bit vague and may also be due to the distortions, shadowing etc. But I imagine having been able to notice variations of altitudes there, thus e.g. my idea of the prominency of Vic's rim. Also it seems to me that the broad, dark flank of Victoria (the ejecta?) has quite clear radial undulation on its surface and in parts ends rather abruptly towards the surrounding lower white patches of the etched terrain. Does anyone see the same?

"Things get very interesting another 6-10k SE of there though."


Care to expound on that bro? Images and comments?

Well - just look at that tiny MOLA imagery - the altitude starts to drop off much more quickly and continues to do so until a 10's of KM sized crater

Doug

This page seems to be further along with the updates than the rover site. It mentions Laika and Gagarin: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/daily.cfm

Are we in for another pit stop at this rock outcrop?

http://qt.exploratorium.edu:16080/mars/opp...T7P1215R0M1.JPG

It does show very interesting 'wavy' layers. Or are those just wind ripples?
http://qt.exploratorium.edu:16080/mars/opp...TAP0703L0M1.JPG

There are some jagged areas that remind me of some of the features seen in Endurance. This might be interesting.

Guestimated positions (based on size of "albert" in pancam images)

Long time lurker, First Time poster. This is truly a great board!

Hey, does this terrain that Oppy is in remind anyone else the "Time of Legends" scene in the movie "Time Bandits", i.e. completely flat as far as the eye can see?

Endurance is just a small bump on the horizon now:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...TAP1607R0M1.JPG

390 metres. I guess that explains a page in the latest month-in-review (February) on JPL's MER site, which is boasting that "Opportunity shattered driving records in February, moving nearly a quarter mile (390 feet) in three sols!."

I guess they meant "yards".

390 feet is, of course, a long way short of a quarter of a mile.

This is really quite an apology for a stereo pair, since for my lack of decent software I used indecent instead. It's a cross-technique stereo of the western rim of Victoria. Sources: Sunspots's composition of Victoria & Endurance (for the right eye) and this http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r10_r15/im...5/R1500822.html
(left eye).
It's of modest quality, but I think it's really 3-D. Undoubtly anyone here can make better versions with your sophisticated programs.
(I'm having some difficulty getting the image attached - if it doesn't appear please tell me how to do it)

Marswiggle: thanks, i think it's really 3D!

Updated Opportunity route map:

183 m!!!
New record... Again

When will Oppy leapfrog Spirits total drive distance? Can't be far from now

I would be very grateful if someone friendly made a 3D-image of the whole overlapping swath of those originals. (I won't, too tedious with my elementary methods.) It would include the whole west flank of Victoria and portions of the etched terrain to the north as well. A preliminary study of the area suggests to me that the landscape may be rather curious. Very unofficial results:

1) the radial light-dark pattern of the west flank of Vic consists of gently rolling bulges and troughs where the light coincides roughly with the bulges and the dark with troughs - this is revealed also by gullies on the slopes of the bulges, esp. in the NW (See: http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r10_r15/im...5/R1500822.html
)
2) the flank is markedly elevated from the etched terrain at least in NW corner
3) the etched terrain is quite flat and full of N-S dunes in the vicinity
4) the bright edgelines of the rim of Vic are mainly precipices sloping to the inside of the crater below the smoother greyish rim, being mostly steep, partly gentler
5) the westernmost, somewhat angular-shaped reach of the rim is relatively low elevated and gentle-sloping and in my opinion makes a potential ingress/egress point for Oppy, also leading to potential exposures of lower stratigraphic units along the western portion of Vic.

Warning: this is NOT an official science news release but only some dilettantish guessing about something there. I would only be obliged if I became disproven (perhaps not so in the case of total turn-down).

Well, I made the Victoria west flank 3D after all, so you can see what I mean. But I must admit I'm quite baffled with this image now. Are those landforms true or could there be something wrong with the original images? The 'waves' of the surface are almost too systematically west to east orientated. But still the crater floor is clearly below the surface of the flank.

It's a cross-technique stereo, as I call it - the left image for the right eye and so on.

It's getting exciting. Time for a route map update. Does anyone have one? And, how do you guys know how afr we've gone at a given time. It isn't on the JPL site.

For example, when we got so close to burns cliff, you'd think that NASA would be showing everyone. But, I just learned today we got so close.

Driving again today. Anyone dare to say how far we have gone in the past few days?

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...23P1315L0M1.JPG

Looks like we're getting quite close to the V-twins now..

They are almost line asturn in the first image

http://qt.exploratorium.edu:16080/mars/opp...23P2392L2M1.JPG

http://qt.exploratorium.edu:16080/mars/opp...23P2392L2M1.JPG

Odd filter choice for end-of-drive imaging, usually it's L7+R1 3 x 1 in the drive direction.

things look particularly exciting in the first image looking toward Albert

Doug

My latest position guestimate
Click to view attachment

So arrival at Viking & Voyager tommorov by the looks of it?
That thing is really moving

Uh. Are you serious about the Viking and Voyager thing?

Change maps
Up until now - we have been plotitng our position on this image


http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r10_r15/im...5/R1502302.html

but the big drives of the last week mean its time to turn over and use THIS sheet

http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r10_r15/im...5/R1500822.html



Sadly - still nothing cproto of Victoria itself - I hope we'll see that in the next MSSS image release which I think is imminant

Doug

Are we there yet?

V&V are also significant in that they are roughly at the half-way mark between Endevour and Victoria. I'm amazed that we're not getting a nicer view of the much larger crater by now. There must be a dip into the etched terrain before the land rises on the flanks of Victoria.

So where is this esteemed Opportunity Route Map anyway, im lost in meridianni again, i found an old map but if Doug or someone has a static url with the map containing ongoing updates, or if it could be pinned to the start of this thread with the continually updated image, that would be terrific!

There's no such thing - JPL doesnt see fit to publish anything like that - Alan linked to his latest guestimate a few posts ago

Essentially - just north of the twin small craters at the edge of the etched terrain

Doug

OK< Here's the scoop. As of the end of sol 413, (today) Opportunity is 220m from Viking. Opp. went a record 220 m on sol 410

If that's true it is INSANE

Scooparama





Doug

I concur. Welcome to the blueberry interstate.