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Nirgal

Apr 10 2006, 09:08 PM

Yes.
... not long ago, I remember discussions about obvious naming conflicts with features encountered by Spirit on the top of McCool Hill (with the Everest naming theme already taken for Husband Summit)... then came the sudden wheel death and McCool is only a remote dream by now

No doubt: it's a lot of fun dreaming and speculating (actually, that's what drives exploration and science at all in the end

... but let's also never forget that those wonderful machines are not immortal ... after nearly ten times life expectancy sudden death could strike virtually any time ... any hour of any given sol ...

So let's use every day of given mobility for moving towards our final great goal:
Oppy will either reach Victoria or die trying !

Toma B

Apr 11 2006, 07:23 AM

According to "MER Pancam Data Tracking Web Interface", today ( sol 787 ) will be driving day again...
And terain looks great for another 50m+ drive...

CODE

Sol Seq.Ver  ETH ESF EDN EFF ERP Tot  Description
--- -------- --- --- --- --- --- ---- -----------
787 p1151.04 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
787 p1154.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
787 p1205.06 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_haz_penultimate_0.5_bpp_pri17
787 p1211.03 2   0   0   2   0   4    ultimate_front_haz_1_bpp_pri_15
787 p1275.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
787 p1305.05 2   0   0   2   0   4    rear_haz_penultimate_0.5bpp_pri17
787 p1311.07 2   0   0   2   0   4    rear_haz_ultimate_1_bpp_crit15
787 p1375.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    rear_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
787 p1785.03 10  0   0   10  0   20   navcam_5x1_az_324_3_bpp
787 p1975.01 10  0   0   10  0   20   navcam_5x1_az_144_3_bpp
787 p2387.07 8   0   0   8   2   18   pancam_drive_direction_4x1_L2R2
787 p2568.15 2   0   0   2   2   6    pancam_outcrop_L7R1
787 p2600.07 2   2   0   0   2   6    pancam_tau
787 p2600.07 2   2   0   0   2   6    pancam_tau
787 Total    50  4   0   46  8   108

Tesheiner

Apr 11 2006, 05:22 PM

Route map, updated to sol 785.
Click to view attachment

RNeuhaus

Apr 11 2006, 06:47 PM

Next Sol drive, Oppy will meet a very big etched outcrop on the east side of its straight path toward VC.

Rodolfo

Tesheiner

Apr 12 2006, 01:44 PM

Route map, updated to sol 787.

Click to view attachment (332k)

dot.dk

Apr 14 2006, 02:08 AM

Tosols drive (789) put Oppy about where your blue line turns east I think

Time to see if they'll follow your route

mhoward

Apr 14 2006, 03:05 AM

QUOTE (dot.dk @ Apr 14 2006, 02:08 AM)

Tosols drive (789) put Oppy about where your blue line turns east I think

Time to see if they'll follow your route

Looks like it to me - the Pancam drive direction images are over in that direction. And the drifts look very manageable

Tesheiner

Apr 14 2006, 12:48 PM

Route map, updated to sol 789.

Click to view attachment (336k)

Let's see where she goes...

climber

Apr 14 2006, 12:57 PM

If she turn left...you'll be right Tesheiner. I follow your guess. Any time I've desagreed with you so far, I was wrong!

Tesheiner

Apr 14 2006, 01:00 PM

Well, we currently disagree on the arrival date at VC...

climber

Apr 14 2006, 01:16 PM

You'd better follow me on this

Marz

Apr 14 2006, 02:44 PM

QUOTE (climber @ Apr 14 2006, 07:57 AM)

If she turn left...you'll be right Tesheiner. I follow your guess. Any time I've desagreed with you so far, I was wrong!

It looks like she can take a slightly more direct path without having to go so far left (east?). Tesheiner's path looks like an excellent route. Looks like at current rates, it'll take us 30-40 sols to leave the current map box... and then another 30-40 sols to reach Victoria. So bets around 850-880 are looking sweet right now!

However, the etched terrain does peter out closer to the crater, so who knows if the driving will be slower there.

Tesheiner

Apr 17 2006, 09:21 AM

QUOTE (Marz @ Apr 14 2006, 04:44 PM)

It looks like she can take a slightly more direct path without having to go so far left (east?).

Exactly.

Route map, updated to sol 792.
Click to view attachment (337k)

Tesheiner

Apr 19 2006, 09:53 AM

Route map, updated to sol 794 (and a slightly corrected 792 position).

Click to view attachment (337k)

climber

Apr 19 2006, 04:06 PM

You're still right !
(Little discrepensy due to Oppy's drivers driving too fast to anticipate the turn to the left).

Toma B

Apr 20 2006, 06:18 PM

There's been somewhat slow progress due to "restricted sols"...
When will "restricted sols" end ?

BTW today is driving sol...

CODE

Sol Seq.Ver  ETH ESF EDN EFF ERP Tot  Description
--- -------- --- --- --- --- --- ---- -----------
796 p0685.03 10  0   0   10  0   20   navcam_5x1_az_144_3_bpp
796 p1151.04 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
796 p1154.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
796 p1205.06 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_haz_penultimate_0.5_bpp_pri17
796 p1214.05 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_haz_ultimate_4bpp_pri15
796 p1275.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
796 p1275.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
796 p1275.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
796 p1275.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
796 p1305.05 2   0   0   2   0   4    rear_haz_penultimate_0.5bpp_pri17
796 p1311.07 2   0   0   2   0   4    rear_haz_ultimate_1_bpp_crit15
796 p1375.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    rear_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
796 p1375.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    rear_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
796 p1375.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    rear_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
796 p1375.01 2   0   0   2   0   4    rear_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
796 p1586.00 4   0   4   0   0   8    navcam_cloud_4x1_dwnsmp_RVRAz330
796 p1785.01 10  0   0   10  0   20   navcam_5x1_az_324_1_bpp
796 p2391.07 2   0   0   2   2   6    pancam_Fort_Leavenworth_L7R1
796 p2392.07 12  0   0   12  2   26   pancam_drv_dir_6x1_L2R2
796 p2600.08 2   2   0   0   2   6    pancam_tau
796 p2600.08 2   2   0   0   2   6    pancam_tau
796 Total    70  4   4   62  8   148

climber

Apr 20 2006, 09:34 PM

I just have the idea to put on (a partial) Phil's map the location of Oppy at the same distance to Endurance as she is now from Victoria (I assumed 1525m). She is about Vostok on a better terrain... This could also help to determine when she get to VC

Click to view attachment

Tesheiner

Apr 21 2006, 08:59 PM

Here is a crop of my route map (left) and sol 796 "drive-direction" pancam mosaic (right), including some indications to outcrops which can be seen on both orbital and ground views.

The feature "E" seems to be the small crater located at the beginning of the ejecta blanked (following my proposed path). See "Victoria on the horizon" thread for more.

Bubbinski

Apr 21 2006, 09:01 PM

What is "E" on your map? Victoria Crater?

ElkGroveDan

Apr 21 2006, 09:48 PM

[quote name= quote in reply - removed
[/quote]

The "E' looks like it's that little crater at the northern (NNW) base of Victoria's debris slope

Shaka

Apr 21 2006, 10:12 PM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Apr 21 2006, 10:59 AM)

Here is a crop of my route map (left) and sol 796 "drive-direction" pancam mosaic (right), including some indications to outcrops which can be seen on both orbital and ground views.

As usual, Tesh, you push "the Vision Thing" to a higher plane, and the rest of us have to 'scramble' to follow.
I'm trying my best to compare left and right in your image, with only partial success. In the god's-eye map there seems to be a big splotch of white between C and D, but I can't see any of it on the right. What's wrong with my eyes?

Myran

Apr 22 2006, 12:25 AM

I can only echo Shaka's comment, over the mission there have been one excellent work on tracking the position of the rovers. But right now im feeling increasingly lost in a sea of sand.

Pando

Apr 22 2006, 01:10 AM

Here's a bird's eye view of Tesheiner's landmarks, I hope it helps you getting oriented properly...

The Red ball is the rover, and the yellow lines mark the edges of Tesheiner's panorama.

RNeuhaus

Apr 22 2006, 02:09 AM

Thanks to Tesheiner and Pando imaging, I am able to ubicate very well the MER-B's surrondings. The route to VC, I am most interested in visiting is the dark and somewhat tall ripples, close to the West of point D (where there is another light color outcrops) at around 110 meters away from Oppy's present position (only visual estimation). Hope that around one week, Oppy will be there.

According to the last news from MER JPL Web is that the engineers will try to move the Oppy in almost everyday. On the contrary to the last week, Oppy has an about 3 soles driving in a week.

Rodolfo

P.D.Need an updated picture over that zone from MRO. Will it do since it took two HIRSE pictures around southern hemisphere (west of Agyre crater) and the other on the east of Hella Basin and the next time would be on Apollinus , Gusev and Ma'adin zone? I hope MRO's team will promise to give a picture for MER's team.
HIRSE pictures on Southern Hemisphere

Shaka

Apr 22 2006, 02:21 AM

QUOTE (Pando @ Apr 21 2006, 03:10 PM)

Here's a bird's eye view of Tesheiner's landmarks, I hope it helps you getting oriented properly...

The Red ball is the rover, and the yellow lines mark the edges of Tesheiner's panorama.

Hee hee! From God's eye to a bird's to a rover's and back again.

O.K. Maybe I can make it all fit: The splotch of white outcrop between C and D is hidden by the splotch of high, dark ripples between B and D. Right?
If not, just give me up as a hopeless case.

Tesheiner

Apr 22 2006, 12:21 PM

QUOTE (Shaka @ Apr 22 2006, 04:21 AM)

The splotch of white outcrop between C and D is hidden by the splotch of high, dark ripples between B and D. Right?

That's exactly what I thought when making the composition. It's not the first (and won't be the last) time some big outcrops are hidden behind the ripples.
And this is something that makes be feel lost too, because sometimes it happen that after a, let's say, 50m drive the rover is right on a big field of rocks which can't be seen on the previous sol's images.

Myran

Apr 22 2006, 12:28 PM

Oh yes you felt it too then Tesheiner.
It have been this very fast drive that made me loose my bearings, since I was unable to compare from previous days. So yes I accept your interpretation, with just a small wonder why Victoria doesnt look as expected in streched images etc - but no! Dont try to explain that, we'll see in due time.

Tesheiner

Apr 22 2006, 12:38 PM

In those cases (new features invisible on pre-drive images) what usually "saves the day" is a polar projection; it's quite "easy" to match the outcrops seen on orbital imagery (route map) with those on the polar view.

Besides, I've just checked the tracking web and sol 799 (tomorrow) is driving day. In addition, there is a planned 5x1 color panorama tosol: "Junction City" is it's name. I'm 99% convinced that's the big outcrop "B" on my previous post.

Tesheiner

Apr 24 2006, 12:44 PM

Route map, updated to sol 799.

Click to view attachment (337k)

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Apr 22 2006, 02:38 PM)

In addition, there is a planned 5x1 color panorama tosol: "Junction City" is it's name. I'm 99% convinced that's the big outcrop "B" on my previous post.

It wasn't. Just the ripple to the right of sol 796 pancam mosaic.

Bill Harris

Apr 24 2006, 12:55 PM

We're approaching an area where the going will be a bit slower: the ripples are taller Oppy will have to drive around them more than drive over them. The "dark dune" area is likely a paleo crater and once we get past it the travel speed ought to pick up again. Oppy made great progress for a while, but's let's not get complacent.

The ripples are taller and the bedrock is more uneven, this could be an interesting area.

--Bill

Ant103

Apr 24 2006, 07:36 PM

Tesheiner : I've update the right picture of your route map. 'cause this side of the image wasn't update, contrary to the left side

Tesheiner

Apr 24 2006, 08:41 PM

Merci Ant103!

The idea was to sync the right side whenever "shifting up" the left side -- which btw should happen in a week or two at this pace --, but I think I should do that more often.

Toma B

Apr 25 2006, 07:15 AM

Today (sol800) is driving sol just like yesterday...

It has been long time since 2 or more driving sols in a row...

CODE

800 p0695.03 0   0   0   0   0   0    navcam_5x1_az_162_3_bpp
800 p1205.06 0   0   0   0   0   0    front_haz_penultimate_0.5_bpp_pri17
800 p1211.03 0   0   0   0   0   0    ultimate_front_haz_1_bpp_pri_15
800 p1275.01 0   0   0   0   0   0    front_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
800 p1275.01 0   0   0   0   0   0    front_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
800 p1305.05 0   0   0   0   0   0    rear_haz_penultimate_0.5bpp_pri17
800 p1311.07 0   0   0   0   0   0    rear_haz_ultimate_1_bpp_crit15
800 p1375.01 0   0   0   0   0   0    rear_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
800 p1375.01 0   0   0   0   0   0    rear_hazcam_0.5bpp_pri_41
800 p1991.02 0   0   0   0   0   0    navcam_5x1_az_342_pri29_2_bpp
800 p2395.07 0   0   0   0   0   0    pancam_drive_direction_5cx1r_L2R2

jamescanvin

Apr 26 2006, 02:21 AM

QUOTE (='jamescanvin' in 'Moving south to Victoria' thread)

If my understanding of the data tracking site is correct, then the drive to 69KE on sol 800 was 30.8m on a bearing of 112 degrees.

Putting us here

Click to view attachment

I Think... I hope when the images come through Tesheiner can confirm this.

James

jamescanvin

Apr 26 2006, 01:00 PM

Another sol, another drive...

Sol 801 tracking data to site/drive 69NV

Distance 26.8m - Bearing 167 Degrees

Click to view attachment

James

Tesheiner

Apr 26 2006, 01:19 PM

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Apr 26 2006, 04:21 AM)

I Think... I hope when the images come through Tesheiner can confirm this.

Right on the money, James.

Here is what I've got based on a polar projection of sol 800 navcam pics and trying to fit as much as possible the visible outcrops.

Route map, updated to sol 800.
Click to view attachment (338k)

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Apr 26 2006, 03:00 PM)

Another sol, another drive...

I would expect at least five driving days in a row. Let's see...

antoniseb

Apr 26 2006, 02:41 PM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Apr 26 2006, 07:19 AM)

I would expect at least five driving days in a row. Let's see...

That would be two straight between the dunes to the next open area, one day going SE across the saltflats, and two more days going straight South between the dunes?

Tesheiner

Apr 26 2006, 08:48 PM

Sol 802 is planned for driving too, per the tracking web.
Given James estimation for 801 position (where are those pics?

) it looks quite probable the rover will reach the next outcrop field on its path tosol.

Tesheiner

Apr 27 2006, 07:50 AM

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Apr 26 2006, 03:00 PM)

Sol 801 tracking data to site/drive 69NV
Distance 26.8m - Bearing 167 Degrees

I've got 27.5m (+-0.5m) via parallax measurements to the little rock patch which can be seen on sol 801 navcams (http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportu...NVP0695L0M1.JPG) and sol 800 pancam (http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportu...KEP2395L2M1.JPG).

Very consistent with your data; I like that!

jamescanvin

Apr 27 2006, 07:55 AM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Apr 26 2006, 11:19 PM)

Right on the money, James.

Well, not quite. It's close, but I don't understand the discrepency between the distances I get from the tracking data and that on your map.

I'll do some more tests...

I've overlayed the route derived from the tracking data over your map (matched at the sol 794 point (the origin of site 69)).

What's interesting about this map is it shows the different driving techniques. The 'solid line' of red points shows autonav regions (around 1m between each point) and the more widely spaced points (with yellow lines between) where they are more confident of the terrain (near the start of the sol) and are doing 6-10m (blind) drives before checking for slippage etc.

James

Tesheiner

Apr 27 2006, 08:24 AM

QUOTE

Well, not quite. It's close, but I don't understand the discrepency between the distances I get from the tracking data and that on your map.

I think one reason may be the map scale --- there was a discussion on this issue a long time ago (it should be somewhere here on the forum). This one is assumed to be at 0.5m/pix but I'm not 100% convinced of that.

Another obvious reason is the unaccuracy of my measurements.

On those moves between two outcrop fields I usually use parallax to calculate the net driving distance and those measurements may include errors. In addition, those errors are cumulative on subsequent moves.
The big difference with Spirit map (imo) is that the outcrops give a good way to recover from those measurement errors because it's quite easy to compare a polar projection of a nav/pancam mosaic with the base map and find a "best fit" position on it. Anyhow, this "best fit" is a bit subjective and error prone. The advantage is that it is not affected from errors on previous sols estimations; it can even be used to correct the previous ones.

An example with the "best fit" estimation for sol 801 position:

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Tesheiner

Apr 27 2006, 12:23 PM

Route map, updated to sol 802.

Click to view attachment (338k)

Rocky terrain for the next 50+ meters.

paxdan

Apr 27 2006, 01:18 PM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Apr 27 2006, 01:23 PM)

Rocky terrain for the next 50+ meters.

I like the irony of the orbital recon leading the assumption that the etched terrain was unsuitabe for roving and the plains being better, when in fact the opposite is, to a large extent, true.

Aaaahhh photo-geology from orbit, don't ya love it

jamescanvin

Apr 27 2006, 01:39 PM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Apr 27 2006, 06:24 PM)

I don't think that is a problem, I can't see any obvious scaling or rotation to improve the match.

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Apr 27 2006, 06:24 PM)

Another obvious reason is the unaccuracy of my measurements.

I'm not so sure this is a problem either, your positions look good to me (wrt the outcrops)

It may be there is no real problem, I think I need to compare more maps. I'll get back to you...

James

Tesheiner

Apr 27 2006, 01:49 PM

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Apr 27 2006, 09:55 AM)

What's interesting about this map is it shows the different driving techniques. The 'solid line' of red points shows autonav regions (around 1m between each point) and the more widely spaced points (with yellow lines between) where they are more confident of the terrain (near the start of the sol) and are doing 6-10m (blind) drives before checking for slippage etc.

Just imagine what could be done with a better base map and an automated process to extract the route points from the tracking web...

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Apr 27 2006, 03:39 PM)

It may be there is no real problem, I think I need to compare more maps. I'll get back to you...

There is another possible issue with the maps.
If you compare the images I use on my route map (R15-00822 and R22-00640) they simply don't fit each other 100%, and it's not an issue of scaling or rotation. The reason is that MGS doesn't take a due vertical shot but at an angle, and those two images were taken at different positions. It's the same as trying to fit two images of a stereo pair; they won't.

jamescanvin

Apr 28 2006, 12:57 AM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Apr 27 2006, 11:49 PM)

Just imagine what could be done with a better base map and an automated process to extract the route points from the tracking web...

Indeed

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Apr 27 2006, 11:49 PM)

That's true, I hadn't thought of that, thanks.

James

jamescanvin

Apr 28 2006, 04:02 AM

OK i've done a bit more work on this.

Attached is an overlay of all the locations listed on the tracking site on Tesheiner's route map back to sol 775 - this covers 3 'sites' 67, 68 & 69 which are added and matched to the map seperately (it's not one continuous line) there are a couple of interesting things to note:

1) The fit to Tesheiner's route line is very good showing what we already new - what a great job he's doing

I find it incredibly hard looking at all these outcrops and trying to figure out whats going on!

2) For two of the three 'sites' I had to rotate my route by around 3 degrees to get it to match with Tesheiner's map following the ground features (I'm not sure about the third). This got me thinking, MGS's orbit is inclided at about 93 degrees and so when crossing the equator at Meridiani will be traveling at 3 degrees from north/south and as it uses a 'brush broom' camera this will be the orientation of the image pixels.

My question is, has that been accounted for on this map, or is north really 3 degrees away from 'up'? Which would make a lot of sense compared to what i'm getting from the data tracking data!

James

Tesheiner

Apr 28 2006, 11:23 AM

Route map, updated to sol 803.

Click to view attachment

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Apr 28 2006, 06:02 AM)

My question is, has that been accounted for on this map, or is north really 3 degrees away from 'up'? Which would make a lot of sense compared to what i'm getting from the data tracking data!

The map is the "map-projected" version of R15-00822.
I did another analysis based on the heading to that crater just at the borded of the ejecta blanket. I compared the heading derived from the pancam images (data tracking data) with the heading derived from the route map (map data), and they are aprox. 1 degree off.

Bill Harris

Apr 28 2006, 12:26 PM

Great route maps. The route that Oppy is travelling coincides with your proposed route, which makes sense since your proposed route is reasonable. I think that Oppy will arrive at the ejecta blanket at that fresh crater at the border; this makes sense since that crater wil provide an excellent preview of the shallow subsurface and a closeup view of parts of the Victoria rim strata that we cannot easily view closely.

--Bill

Tesheiner

Apr 28 2006, 09:10 PM

I'm just at the beginning of a loooong weekend; besides the May 1st holiday I'll take the 2nd & 3rd too.
So no route map updates, at least from my side, until thursday.

(time to finish packing things on the caravan...)

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