Oh my bad. I thought you were talking about the huge crater on the bottom of the image you posted.

It would be neat if we could see some of those frames to make a movie of driving Meridiani...

[quote=Pando,Mar 9 2005, 10:57 AM][quote=djellison,Mar 9 2005, 03:14 AM] [quote=CosmicRocker,Mar 9 2005, 03:02 AM] [quote=djellison,Mar 3 2005, 05:18 AM]imho - it's a very very erroded crater, much more so than eagle/fram etc - i.e. pre hydrological activity - it'll just be exactly what it appears on the orbital images - a ring of exposed rock perhaps a few CM above the surrounding area with no inner 'dip' or dunes

Doug[/quote]
You pretty much called it, Doug. [/quote]
I think that deserves a mars bar

Doug [/quote]
Well Doug you may have to share that mars bar...

[quote=Pando,Feb 25 2005, 01:36 PM]
Personally I don't think Vostok is visible at all unless you're almost on top of it. The rim is probably totally eroded away so that it's just a flat bedrock peeking through the soil.[/quote]

http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?showtopic=681&st=45&#

[/quote]
[quote](dot.dk @ Mar 6 2005, 09:45 AM)  Me thinks Vostok is a big cirkle of outcrop like the one to the right of Oppy in the picture above
Hey, I want some of it too [/quote]

Gee, this set of quotes is getting a bit much to handle.

I'm thinking that the person who was first willing to go out on a limb, predicting the ground truth through Oppy's eyes, deserves the Mars bar. However, if any of you want to email a mailing address to me, I will send a whole bar to Doug and half bars to the second and third runners-up.

Heh, after Doug posted his initial comment, I looked carefully at the orbiter image and thought, "Hey, he's right."

So, where are we now? are we moving?

Last time I checked Oppy was using her instruments on the rocks of Vostok crater.

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...00P1110L0M1.JPG

But, we haven't even seen any good pictures of Vostok.

?

What about the one posted by Doug here?

Tman's is here as well...

Never say never! (well, I guess you didn't actually...)

I'm not sure where Endurance and Vicroria are on this view.

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/0...Ellipse_25m.gif

You can find the context map of the landing location here. From there it should be easy to determine where Endurance is (a bit to the east of landing site, in the center of the landing ellipse), and where Victoria is (outside of the landing ellipse to the south).

This will show you the landing location, and the adjacent craters:
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/0...llipsefinal.jpg

Thanks! That totaly makes it clear where everything is. How close are we to the edge of the landing elipse?

On that stitched together mosaic of the ellipse, it looks like the etched terrain is just a different resolution image.

I think the landing ellipse borderline is about halfway from where Oppy is now and Victoria. I don't think the boundary is exactly defined anyway, so it's a rough guestimate based on the MSSS images in the previous posts.

edit: see attachment

This site rocks!

Anyone have a really good close up map of the etched terrain?

yes, here

Thanks! Is that the west rim of Victoria on the lower right edge of the image?

I wonder if the very dark areas are enormous piles of blue berries.

Endurance Crater compared to Victoria Crater:

...but can Opportunity successfully navigate through the etched terrain? Stay tuned.

Sweet work, Sunspot!
Victoria looks a little too steep to enter in this pic, but let's hope Oppy lasts long enough to find out.

Tim Parker has identified what could be an 'entrance ramp' in the NW corner of the crater

Doug

Some parts of the SE don't look too steep either.

Yes, it is.

Victoria Crater seems to resemble my weary bloodshot eyes now that i've found this sight and all the cool help creating images.....somebody help i need sleep...The sand in the bottoms sure creates neat patterns. ohhhh look at the pretty patterns...

seriously though it looks very formitable. Should be intresting if oppy gets there

scott

oops didn't mean to post the pic in the reply......told ya i've been up too long.

Maybe the scale's throwing me off, but there looks like a nasty "ledge" all around the rim to me. Wouldn't Oppy just be about a few pixels wide at the size? That's a big one!

From looking at the image of Victoria and the etched terrain. I tend to get the impression that this so-called "etched terrain", is no more than thicker sand dunes atop the white bedrock. Here, it looks like the sand dunes are blowing along liek waves leaving the bedrock exposed between the crests, perhaps this is due to wind patterns or maybe the elevation is slightly higher here and most of the sand has already blown to the lowlands leaving this area somewhat rarified compared to the deep sand of the area we are now traversing. and so far this bedrock has proven to be pretty easily erodable and therefore pretty flat where it is exposed, so I dont think well see anything more than larger deeper sand dunes well have to naviagate between perhaps a little more carefully as we cross that area, but the bedrock should be pan-flat, its probably eroded pretty consistently flat below the sand as the waves of sand have sweeped across... stay tuned...

I agree. Myu thoughts are that the etched terrain is an area with thinner soil so that the bedrock is exposed. We see ghost craters and the NE-trending lineations of the Anatolia structures.

I think that Vostok is the bottom of an old, highly-eroded crater. The upturned strata are eroded away and we see flat-lying strata with shatter cones from the shock of the impact (ie, the polyagonal "mudcracks" we see).

Lyford, don't look at it as a nasty ledge, but a super-sized Burns Cliff. A roadcut, as it were.

--Bill

I believe the correct term is "palimpsests." It's such a cool word, let's use it more.

Not strictly. Palimpsests are thought of as impact craters in which the topographic relief has been eliminated by relaxation/creep of the icy surface of icy moon. The ghost craters are erosional fratures.

IMO...

--Bill

Hi Bill -

That's what I mean - they couldn't drive down Burn's Cliff - "Karatepe" served as the ramp. Though perhaps we can infer that these ramps exist in between the cliffs - and the crater is big enough that Oppy may be able to switchback it's way down. Its dune field looks twice as big as all of Endurance! But I haven't seen any 3D data on the depth of Victoria, so I will defer to others on this.

Perhaps I am conflating Victoria with the Sarlacc in my subconscious..... *shudder*

Updated route map:

...and new route map after leaving Vostok.

I agree with Doug that there is no real sense in visiting the craters further west per their preliminary plan. They are probably taking a straight shot to those two craters at the beginning of Etched Terrain...

I look at Burns Cliff, et al, as wonderful geologic sections. Much can be learned by looking at the stratigraphy and structure, even if not closely. It would be great if Oppy could go inside Victoria, but remember, Vicky is steeper and meaner and Oppy will be older and creakier. There are several "windgaps" around Victoria's rim that look to have gentler slopes, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were sandier and looser.

We'll see what we see when we get there, but think of the sights we'll see along the way.

--Bill

I really hope we make it to Victoria, just for the look

Remember back when Spirit landed we were told the Columbia Hills was a far from certain target to ever reach. But today Spirit has spent more time in the hills than it did on its's first 90 Sols + the long trek to the hills

Right now I can't see what's gonna stop these amazing pieces of mahinery. Even if they have driven 4 km I don't think the mobility system is close to being worn out. The Lunokhod 2 rover travelled about 50 km and I don't believe the MER's won't have about the same build quality

The big problems is dust and fundings to keep them roving

I've been wondering about the dark markings on the horizon first pointed out here
http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?showtopic=644&st=20
as possibly being Victoria Crater. It was imaged again when Opportunity was at Vostok so I decided to measure it to check Oppys progress.



189/281 = .67 so if I measured it from the same points this means that Opportunity has covered roughly 1/3 of the distance to it. Opportunity has covered only 1/4 of the distance to Victoria so I doubt it is Victoria. Instead I believe it is this crater which is at the right distance



Notice the near rim is eroded while the far rim is casting shadows.
Any one know if this crater has a name yet?

On another board, they're calling it Albert.

I daresay the good folks at JPL will name it after a ship, however.

Yes, I hope that Victoria reveals larger sections of strata... you are right that it would be worth it even if they can't get down inside. I keep forgetting they have almost 30 degrees of slope they can navigate, but that's on solid gournd and the inbetween spots look like steeper rockfalls to me, with slippery debris tracks leading down into the dunes... We will see when we get there and take stereo imagery... It's all good!

The lates Opportunity update is about Opportunity getting ready to drive to Vostok. Well we have alreday left it behind

http://marsrover.nasa.gov/mission/status_o...All.html#sol389

I have this vision of Victoria; it must one awesome crater up close! Let's hope all goes well, I want to have seen Victoria..

Yup, the next release will say things like 'Opportunity has finally reached Vostok,' and something about "Laika" and "Gagarin"...

Man, the PR people are slow...

For some reason, they're 11 sols behind on Opportunity but only 5 on Spirit.

Gee willakers, 50 km worth of lunar images.(!).
where can we find those pics...? anyone?

yeah, I am surprised how agonizingly slow Spirit is creeping up those Columbia Hills yet gratified it made it this far considering the 90 day warranty, i just hope it makes it to see the 'Aritreya' cliff (or whatever NASA refers to it as) on the south side of the ridge. Now that the death-by-dust scenario has been postponed for at least another year...

Here are some, the quality is horrible though (TV images):

http://pages.preferred.com/~tedstryk/lunokhod2.html

I need to update that page...I have some better stuff...but here is the page with the best Lunokhod stuff, courtesy Don Mitchell.

http://www.mentallandscape.com/C_CatalogMoon.htm


Also, here is my Lunokhod 1 page:

http://pages.preferred.com/%7Etedstryk/lunokhod1.html

I combined old and current map images to show the possible path into the etched terrain. There is about 2.3km left to the large crater, maybe 700m from there to drive outside the landing ellipse (the thick pale line).

Victoria crater is outside the image, over 2km from the large crater that seems to be the target at the moment.

Opportunity travel plan

If my identification of "albert" is correct Victoria should be about here


Raw images Courtesy NASA/JPL-Caltech

Anybody see it?

Lunochods as well as other soviet space science stuff are victims of absurd soviet secrecy. Both lunar rovers took thousands TV shots and tens pans. But few of them have been released.

Tedstryk's links (thanks!!!) contain the biggest collection of Lunas pictures I've ever seen.

Not even that! It's now on sol 395 and says:

"After confirmation that these important images have been acquired, Opportunity will turn and drive toward Vostok"

Would the fact that I've already made mosaics from them count as 'confirmation'



Doug

It must be comfirmed then.

What do you think "albert" will look like? just an over grown Vostok. A few of the edges look like we might get an ok look at the strata.

Western edge (which they appear to be planning to avoid, although I think they'll drive around that way to be honest ) - appears like it may have a baby-cliff, but it may just be a build up of dark dust against a small line of outcropping

Doug