QUOTE (neville thompson @ Sep 13 2023, 04:51 PM) 
The mosaic Perseverance 907-MZ of Neville is really fantastic !
Some rocks or stones seem to be "rocky or stony bubbles". One can guess "mini-caves" within the rocks !
Volcanic origin ?
Full Version: Jezero Delta Campaign, Sols 414-1000
The mosaic Perseverance 907-MZ of Neville is really fantastic !
Some rocks or stones seem to be "rocky or stony bubbles". One can guess "mini-caves" within the rocks !
Volcanic origin ?
Probably a lava gas bubble; a potential geode that that never had a chance to grow up. A pity we cannot see the other side of the rock next to it to see if it is hollow and associated. At the top right of the image it seems there may be a penetration into another hollow example.
360 degree mosaic panorama for the Sol 908 drive with a large version link. The images were taken on the morning of Sol 909, and are a drive to the west since Sol 903. Thanks to Paul for image and camera navigation info and to Kevin Gill for the raw image utilities that all help prep the images for my processing steps.
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Following the afternoon drive farther west on Sol 909 we see this. Some of the rocks to the west are apparently part of the marginal carbonates.
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Extended drive animation from Sol 394 to the present.
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Following the afternoon drive farther west on Sol 909 we see this. Some of the rocks to the west are apparently part of the marginal carbonates.
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Extended drive animation from Sol 394 to the present.
This is Steve's panorama for sol 896 in circular form.
Phil
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Phil
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360 degree mosaic panorama for Sol 911 with a large version link. We are now north of the Sol 909 location. Looks like a flat rock just west that could be of carbonate interest for sampling?
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Thanks to Paul for image and camera navigation info and to Kevin Gill for the raw image utilities that all help prep the images for my processing steps.
Extended drive animation from Sol 394 to the present.
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Thanks to Paul for image and camera navigation info and to Kevin Gill for the raw image utilities that all help prep the images for my processing steps.
Extended drive animation from Sol 394 to the present.
This is Steve's panorama for sol 903 (trying to catch up) in circular form. Weaving between the big boulders.
Phil
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Phil
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Sol 908 Mastcam-Z left eye filter 0 raw image (black frame omitted), filter 0 image enhanced, and filters 1 to 6 multispectral principal components
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Sol 910 Mastcam-Z left eye filter 0 raw image (black frame omitted), filter 0 image enhanced, and filters 1 to 6 multispectral principal components
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Sol 912 Mastcam-Z left eye filter 0 raw image (black frame omitted), filter 0 image enhanced, and filters 1 to 6 multispectral principal components
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QUOTE (tau @ Sep 19 2023, 10:13 AM)
Sol 912 Mastcam-Z left eye filter 0 raw image (black frame omitted), filter 0 image enhanced, and filters 1 to 6 multispectral principal components
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blue is basalt right ?
QUOTE (Keltos @ Sep 20 2023, 08:16 AM)
blue is basalt right ?
The much harder follow up question - can we tell whether the signal is basalt bedrock, float, sand, or dust?
I wonder if the spectroscopy of future missions could determine grain sizes?
If Martian dust is as small as 10nm, then you'd normally need x-ray wavelengths, but perhaps some sort of far-UV phased array setup that can use harmonics to see grain size through reflection, diffraction, or dispersion?
I wonder if you could push a ~500MhZ sound wave through the Martian atmosphere, that should be somewhere around the 10nm wavelength you'd want to differentiate between dust and the rock underneath.
Sol 924 plus sol 925 SuperCam Remote Micro-Imager mosaic with sol 922 Mastcam-Z context and sol 911 Navcam context.
The laser hit the purple coating four times completely, twice at the edge of the coating, and four times the rock surface without coating.
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The laser hit the purple coating four times completely, twice at the edge of the coating, and four times the rock surface without coating.
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Sol 922 Mastcam-Z left eye filter 0 raw image (black frame omitted) and filters 1 to 6 multispectral principal components
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Sol 926 - 360 degree mosaic panorama with a large version link. This is a drive to the north since Sol 911. Thanks to Paul for image and camera navigation info and Kevin Gill for the raw image utilities that all help prep the images for my processing steps.
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Sol 927 (below) moves further north with a large version link. A couple of low hills visible on the route map can be seen here to the E and NE across the smoother sandy "small channel".
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Extended drive animation from Sol 394 to the present.
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Sol 927 (below) moves further north with a large version link. A couple of low hills visible on the route map can be seen here to the E and NE across the smoother sandy "small channel".
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Extended drive animation from Sol 394 to the present.
QUOTE (Keltos @ Sep 20 2023, 12:16 AM)
blue is basalt right ?
If you mean in all of the images for which tau has mapped colors onto principal component outputs, then there's no guarantee of that, and at best it would be coincidental. That could be true in one image taken in the morning and then not true in another image taken of the same landscape that afternoon.
If you mean in that particular image, also no guarantee. The color filters in the first place don't have the spectral resolution to determine composition. But, again, it could be true coincidentally in any one image, but we can't infer that everything blue must be basalt.
Thank you for your explanation StargazeInWonder, that is exactly the point.
I could not explain it any better (especially since my English is not the best).
The only thing we can say for sure is that blue surfaces are dust-free (or nearly dust-free) because dust changes the
blue color in the multispectral PCA images to olive green to yellow to orange depending on the thickness of the dust layer.
For example, see this image and this image.
I could not explain it any better (especially since my English is not the best).
The only thing we can say for sure is that blue surfaces are dust-free (or nearly dust-free) because dust changes the
blue color in the multispectral PCA images to olive green to yellow to orange depending on the thickness of the dust layer.
For example, see this image and this image.
Sol 928 SuperCam Remote Micro-Imager mosaic with sol 927 Navcam context, sol 928 Mastcam-Z left eye filter 0 context,
and Mastcam-Z left eye multispectral principal components
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and Mastcam-Z left eye multispectral principal components
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QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Oct 3 2023, 04:29 AM)
If you mean in all of the images for which tau has mapped colors onto principal component outputs, then there's no guarantee of that, and at best it would be coincidental. That could be true in one image taken in the morning and then not true in another image taken of the same landscape that afternoon.
If you mean in that particular image, also no guarantee. The color filters in the first place don't have the spectral resolution to determine composition. But, again, it could be true coincidentally in any one image, but we can't infer that everything blue must be basalt.
If you mean in that particular image, also no guarantee. The color filters in the first place don't have the spectral resolution to determine composition. But, again, it could be true coincidentally in any one image, but we can't infer that everything blue must be basalt.
Thanks! But then what are the filtered photos used for?
Regards
Fred
The value of the PCA color effect is that it makes it dramatically clear when color similarities and differences in an image are significant (statistically) but perhaps not different enough for the human eye to see the similarities and differences.
For an artificial example, suppose there's an image that had an RGB of 128, 87, 23 across the entire upper left and 128, 84, 23 across the rest of the image. The human eye would probably see no difference at all. Statistically, the difference is significant. The PCA algorithm would, I think, make a strong difference between those two areas.
As for what that means geologically, that could be anywhere from nothing to everything.
An example that I've mentioned before: The colored (usually radial) patterns seen when there's oil on a wet street indicate absolutely nothing about composition. It only indicates a truly microscopic gradient in the thickness of the oil on the water. But the color differences are dramatic. Nature never guarantees us that color means compositional differences.
But:
1) Detailed spectra can provide compelling, even overwhelming evidence of composition, especially with gases and vapor. For example, we can be absolutely certain that Uranus and Neptune have methane in their atmospheres.
2) Withstanding all of those disclaimers, color of low spectral resolution sometimes is absolutely due to a compositional reason. If we sprinkled graphite powder all over the floor of a room and then sprinkled sulfur powder on top of that in one corner of the room, that color difference would 100% be due to composition.
I'm sure that in many of tau's PCA colored images, a particular color maps onto a particular kind of composition. But it's another thing to know when that's true and when it's not. That's beyond my knowledge of geology.
For an artificial example, suppose there's an image that had an RGB of 128, 87, 23 across the entire upper left and 128, 84, 23 across the rest of the image. The human eye would probably see no difference at all. Statistically, the difference is significant. The PCA algorithm would, I think, make a strong difference between those two areas.
As for what that means geologically, that could be anywhere from nothing to everything.
An example that I've mentioned before: The colored (usually radial) patterns seen when there's oil on a wet street indicate absolutely nothing about composition. It only indicates a truly microscopic gradient in the thickness of the oil on the water. But the color differences are dramatic. Nature never guarantees us that color means compositional differences.
But:
1) Detailed spectra can provide compelling, even overwhelming evidence of composition, especially with gases and vapor. For example, we can be absolutely certain that Uranus and Neptune have methane in their atmospheres.
2) Withstanding all of those disclaimers, color of low spectral resolution sometimes is absolutely due to a compositional reason. If we sprinkled graphite powder all over the floor of a room and then sprinkled sulfur powder on top of that in one corner of the room, that color difference would 100% be due to composition.
I'm sure that in many of tau's PCA colored images, a particular color maps onto a particular kind of composition. But it's another thing to know when that's true and when it's not. That's beyond my knowledge of geology.
QUOTE (StargazeInWonder @ Oct 4 2023, 12:05 AM)
The value of the PCA color effect is that it makes it dramatically clear when color similarities and differences in an image are significant (statistically) but perhaps not different enough for the human eye to see the similarities and differences.
For an artificial example, suppose there's an image that had an RGB of 128, 87, 23 across the entire upper left and 128, 84, 23 across the rest of the image. The human eye would probably see no difference at all. Statistically, the difference is significant. The PCA algorithm would, I think, make a strong difference between those two areas.
As for what that means geologically, that could be anywhere from nothing to everything.
An example that I've mentioned before: The colored (usually radial) patterns seen when there's oil on a wet street indicate absolutely nothing about composition. It only indicates a truly microscopic gradient in the thickness of the oil on the water. But the color differences are dramatic. Nature never guarantees us that color means compositional differences.
But:
1) Detailed spectra can provide compelling, even overwhelming evidence of composition, especially with gases and vapor. For example, we can be absolutely certain that Uranus and Neptune have methane in their atmospheres.
2) Withstanding all of those disclaimers, color of low spectral resolution sometimes is absolutely due to a compositional reason. If we sprinkled graphite powder all over the floor of a room and then sprinkled sulfur powder on top of that in one corner of the room, that color difference would 100% be due to composition.
I'm sure that in many of tau's PCA colored images, a particular color maps onto a particular kind of composition. But it's another thing to know when that's true and when it's not. That's beyond my knowledge of geology.
For an artificial example, suppose there's an image that had an RGB of 128, 87, 23 across the entire upper left and 128, 84, 23 across the rest of the image. The human eye would probably see no difference at all. Statistically, the difference is significant. The PCA algorithm would, I think, make a strong difference between those two areas.
As for what that means geologically, that could be anywhere from nothing to everything.
An example that I've mentioned before: The colored (usually radial) patterns seen when there's oil on a wet street indicate absolutely nothing about composition. It only indicates a truly microscopic gradient in the thickness of the oil on the water. But the color differences are dramatic. Nature never guarantees us that color means compositional differences.
But:
1) Detailed spectra can provide compelling, even overwhelming evidence of composition, especially with gases and vapor. For example, we can be absolutely certain that Uranus and Neptune have methane in their atmospheres.
2) Withstanding all of those disclaimers, color of low spectral resolution sometimes is absolutely due to a compositional reason. If we sprinkled graphite powder all over the floor of a room and then sprinkled sulfur powder on top of that in one corner of the room, that color difference would 100% be due to composition.
I'm sure that in many of tau's PCA colored images, a particular color maps onto a particular kind of composition. But it's another thing to know when that's true and when it's not. That's beyond my knowledge of geology.
Thank you for this extensive and thorough answer which does clarify things for me
Being an archaeologist I have some geology but sometimes would like to know more..
Thanks again
Fred
For the benefits of multispectral imaging on Mars, see page 9 and 10 in this paper on Mastcam-Z by J.F. Bell III et al.
QUOTE
"Past Mars surface mission experience shows that even low spectral resolution RGB color and multispectral imaging with carefully-selected wavelengths
can help investigators decide strategically and tactically along the traverse where to invest in resource-intensive arm-related or other rover activities,
and to understand more clearly the context of mineralogic phases identified by other payload elements [. . .]
In addition, fine-scale compositional imaging can help to constrain the mineralogy of small features. [. . .]
Collectively, Mastcam-Z’s RGB and narrowband filters should allow certain compositional variations to be rapidly mapped along the rover traverse.
This will help direct the science team’s tactical and strategic attention to the most valuable locations for sampling activities that will inform most effectively
about the history of Mars, including ancient aqueous, potentially habitable environments."
can help investigators decide strategically and tactically along the traverse where to invest in resource-intensive arm-related or other rover activities,
and to understand more clearly the context of mineralogic phases identified by other payload elements [. . .]
In addition, fine-scale compositional imaging can help to constrain the mineralogy of small features. [. . .]
Collectively, Mastcam-Z’s RGB and narrowband filters should allow certain compositional variations to be rapidly mapped along the rover traverse.
This will help direct the science team’s tactical and strategic attention to the most valuable locations for sampling activities that will inform most effectively
about the history of Mars, including ancient aqueous, potentially habitable environments."
QUOTE (tau @ Oct 4 2023, 05:26 AM)
For the benefits of multispectral imaging on Mars, see page 9 and 10 in this paper on Mastcam-Z by J.F. Bell III et al.
Touché, Tau. It means nothing, but it also means everything. To the Geologist, subtle differences-- or repeatable similarities-- can speak volumes. I've been evangelizing this for years. And for the most part, those who say that the multispectral images are useless aren't Geologists.
Keep up the great work.
--Bill
QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 5 2023, 01:33 AM)
..... subtle differences-- or repeatable similarities-- can speak volumes....
Evangelise away Bill though I feel there are few to convert. Multispectral imaging and comparison with laboratory reflectance spectra has been a key capability for Mars missions since the first Viking lander. The MER Pancam filters (L3 to L6 and R3 to R7) were allocated for geology and when the Mössbauer spectrometer and Mini TES died, composition and mineralogical analysis could continue, particularly during Opportunity's long extended mission. Tau's images take me back to those days and are very much appreciated.
Steve's panorama for sol 926 in circular form. I used one of Paul's images to fix an awkward seam.
Phil
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A jog to the SW and then to the NW. Sol 929 - 360 degree mosaic panorama with a large version link. Thanks to Paul for image and camera navigation info and Kevin Gill for the raw image utilities that all help prep the images for my processing steps. The processing procedure addresses most of the seams though a couple can remain - likely related to scattered sunlight in the camera where the low sun is close to one of the images.
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Sol 933 (below) with large version link. It's a higher vantage point now so we can see a good distance back to the SE in the rear view mirror. Looking ahead to the west I think part of Neretva Vallis can be seen.
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Extended drive animation from Sol 387 to the present.
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Sol 933 (below) with large version link. It's a higher vantage point now so we can see a good distance back to the SE in the rear view mirror. Looking ahead to the west I think part of Neretva Vallis can be seen.
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Extended drive animation from Sol 387 to the present.
Hi Steve. Both your large version links go to the same file for sol 933.
Phil
Phil
Oops - thanks Phil! This should be fixed now. I can also mention that a close look at the URLs shows how the Sol can be manually adjusted to get the image of interest.
Sol 939 SuperCam Remote Micro-Imager mosaic with Mastcam-Z context and sol 938 Navcam context
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1. Sol 939 Mastcam-Z filter 0 image enhanced.
2. Left eye multispectral filters 1 to 6 principal components analysis resulted in strange red shadows in the background.
Apparently a dust gust or dust devil passed by in the background when filters 1 and 2 were activated.
3. Principal components using only the "dust-free" images of filters 3 to 6.
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2. Left eye multispectral filters 1 to 6 principal components analysis resulted in strange red shadows in the background.
Apparently a dust gust or dust devil passed by in the background when filters 1 and 2 were activated.
3. Principal components using only the "dust-free" images of filters 3 to 6.
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QUOTE (tau @ Oct 13 2023, 12:46 PM)
2. Left eye multispectral filters 1 to 6 principal components analysis resulted in strange red shadows in the background. Apparently a dust gust or dust devil passed by in the background when filters 1 and 2 were activated.
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Interesting- just a thought, but has Perserverance ever actively sought to image the path just-scoured by a dust devil, to obtain a surface profile of rocks without (as much) dust?
Along that line, wouldn't it be interesting to use Ingenuity takeoff and landing sites to remove dust from interesting areas, so that Perserverance could image them, and better determine whether to move on to core samples?
Interesting thought, Hschirmer. Back in the MER day I toyed with the idea of suggesting a piezo pump and reservoir to slowly build pressure and have a Dust-Off on the end of a RAT arm.
But using Jenny for that is workable.
--Bill
But using Jenny for that is workable.
--Bill
This is Steve's panorama for sol 933, still our current location, in circular form.
Phil
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I believe same location for 11 sols. From images it looks like a sample drilled.
Sol 945 Mastcam-Z right eye raw image, left eye filters 1 to 6 multispectral principal components, anaglyph, and enlarged anaglyph.
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Sol 934 Mastcam-Z right eye raw image, left eye filters 1 to 6 multispectral principal components, anaglyph, and enlarged anaglyph.
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Sol 950 is seen in this 360 degree mosaic along with a large version link. The drive was to the NNE and the view is centered on north. We can see in the distance into Neretva Vallis off to the NW and cutting into Jezero's rim to the west. Thanks to Paul for image and camera navigation info and Kevin Gill for the raw image utilities that all help prep the images for my processing steps.
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Extended drive animation from Sol 387 to the present.
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Extended drive animation from Sol 387 to the present.
Sol 952 is seen in this 360 degree mosaic along with a large version link. The drive was to the NNW and the view is centered on north. Looks like Jurabi point is becoming visible to the north. As Neville nicely shows just above, we can see in the distance into Neretva Vallis off to the NW and cutting into Jezero's rim to the west. Thanks to Paul for image and camera navigation info and Kevin Gill for the raw image utilities that all help prep the images for my processing steps.
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Extended drive animation from Sol 387 to the present.
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Extended drive animation from Sol 387 to the present.
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