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HSchirmer
QUOTE (SteveM @ Mar 3 2019, 07:59 PM) *
Do any of the geologists here have an idea whether there could be a layer of relatively impenetrable consolidated material — e.g., a natural cement — that, unlike pebbles or stones, makes it difficult or impossible for the mole to move it or go around?



Also not a geologist, but there is a fair bit of evidence from shoreline studies suggesting that the Insight landing site
-edit-
sits roughly between the Deuteronilus and Arabia shorelines
The landing site in Elysium is at 135 degrees longitude, about 4.5 latitude, so around 2 o'clock in this polar view


so there is a chance this area
-edit-

was a shallow sea at one time.

QUOTE
https://eprints.ucm.es/33193/1/3-Marte%20SL.pdf
Parker et al. (1989, 1993) also proposed an older, higher-standing Contact 1, later on
renamed Arabia shoreline (Clifford and Parker, 2001). This shoreline, which would be of
Noachian age (see Clifford and Parker, 2001), is roughly coincident with the Martian
dichotomy separating the lowlands from the highlands,


So, there may well be buried duri-crusts or conglomerates or drainage delta materials.
serpens
The deviation of the probe was expected if it encountered a rock and this is taken into account in analysis of results. The rocks exposed on the surface and the size of those excavated by the thrusters does seem to indicate a reasonable probability of encountering an obstruction, so I doubt we need to hypothesize evaporates or buried duricrust. But on Mars we are in the position of dark ages navigators. Here there be dragons, which is quite exciting really.
PaulH51
Sol 92 & 94 ICC GIF Showing what looks like the upper part of the HP3 'Mole' after the 2nd hammering attempt on sol 94.
Credit to the observation to Lars on Twitter (https://twitter.com/LarsTheWanderer)
If this is the mole it must be close to full insertion, but likely at an angle to have pushed the housing away
I've processed / cropped the images to 600x600
Click to view attachment
MahFL
So the current depth is 30cm. 50 cm is needed for the first temp measurement. Tough going.

https://www.musc.dlr.de/hp3/
PaulH51
Sol 95 IDC GIF, of the grapple being stowed. Cropped to reduce GIF load time
Click to view attachment
MahFL
Setback on the drilling, a two week pause, seems their good luck may have ran out...

https://mars.nasa.gov/news/8419/mars-insigh...g/?site=insight

PaulH51
There is a large collection of IDC & ICC frames from sol 96. These may be one attempt over several sols to capture the shadow of Phobos as it crosses the terrain around the lander mentioned in the HP3 blog linked in the previous post.

I think the IDC images may be pointing at the ground covered by HP3's radiance sensor 'RAD'.

I've reviewed all the images from both cameras that were downlinked (so far) but can't see any obvious darkening.

I'm not sure if these cameras are auto exposure and may have compensated for any variation of lighting, or if the shadow passed over between frames.

Note: The HP3 blog updates are extremely welcome, but they do confuse me a little when they refer to future events on Mars. E.g: These Phobos shadows events don't mention mission sols, but use dates (5, 6 and 8 March 2019). I think they're using JPL dates, not DLR dates, but it's a tad confusing to my ageing brain smile.gif
MahFL
Pretty sure the cameras are not auto exposure.
James Sorenson
QUOTE (MahFL @ Mar 5 2019, 08:41 PM) *
Pretty sure the cameras are not auto exposure.


They are flight MER/MSL spares with just the addition of a Bayer filter mask. Identical software and electronics. No reason to suggest they don't have auto-exposure, which MER and MSL did.

In regards to the SP3 mole issues. Why not use the strong, capable arm with it''s unused scoop to dig a deep trench next to the instrument down to the depth that the mole was having issues penetrating to see what we are up against? Knowing that information visually would help in the testbed work out ways to get around it. At the very least determine what stopped the mole if it is unable to get through and help redesign it to handle simular situations on future missions that include something simular to it.

The only reason I could think of to not do that would be potential cave in''s effecting the SEIS data. In that case, just fill in the trench after.
MarcF
From the HP3 blog
https://www.dlr.de/blogs/en/desktopdefault....9577_read-1090/
"Excellent news! We just got the data from the first Phobos eclipse observation and the cooling by the shadow passing through the fields of view of the radiometer in about 30 seconds is clearly visible. The cooling is by about 1°C and is thus somewhat larger than expected and certainly better than with the most pessimistic estimates (that would have said, we will not be able to see it at all)! So the team is happy and is rejoicing about the first eclipse on Mars ever observed with a radiometer."
smile.gif
Regards,
Marc.
djellison
QUOTE (MahFL @ Mar 5 2019, 08:41 PM) *
Pretty sure the cameras are not auto exposure.


They are. Apart from a bayer filter, they're the same as MER and MSL. Whilst they can be commanded with a manual exposure, they are almost always operated with an auto exposure algorithm that will look to reach a certain signal threshold. In excess or short of that threshold, the same image will automatically be attempted with another exposure either longer or shorter. This process will sometimes loop a couple of times before a 'good' image is acquired. The exposure time for THAT image is then carried forward as the seed exposure time for the next image on that camera.

If you look at the label of any engineering camera product submitted to the PDS you will see the parameters for this process set in the sequence that acquired the images.
Phil Stooke
More excellent news. The IDC camera just took a horizon panorama on sol 97. It is not quite complete, but it does extend the sol 14 panorama, filling in about half the gap in that. I hope we will see the last bit soon, if it is possible to take it - i.e. no physical limit on camera pointing. I have posted just the horizon here with a vertically stretched version to show subtle topography better. Thingyvision. The sinusoidal shape of the horizon here is an artifact.

Phil

Click to view attachment
Roby72
I'm interested in solar energy on InSight: How many Whrs per day produced, dust factor and Tau during almost 100 sols since landing ?

Any information is appreciated - Thank You !

PaulH51
100 sols on Mars, congratulations to all that made this possible:

Meanwhile a set of 18 IDC frames (only one processed version attached here) were acquired on sol 99 featuring the terrain where RAD measures the surface temperature. Once again my ageing eyes can't spot any changes in brightness between the frames, if indeed this was another Phobos shadow pass. So let's hope that RAD or the IDC metadata captured a change for the science team (if that's what they set out to do) smile.gif
Click to view attachment
James Sorenson
A screenshot preview of the 360 pan so far. smile.gif

Click to view attachment
PaulH51
Lovely WIP James, the final version will be rather special...

Meanwhile: A processed sol 101 IDC frame of the sun just about to set at Elysium Planitia
Click to view attachment
fredk
Those frames actually span three sols, 100-102. But since the sky hasn't changed much from sol to sol, your animation should give a good idea of what a sunset looks like. Nice!
PaulH51
ExoMars Trace Gas Orbiter Images InSight :
Click to view attachment

Link to report and the full resolution frame: link
DDAVIS
After the InSight Lander captured some stages of a sunset I was inspired to try something I had wanted to do for for a while. I decided to use those images, plus others collected of Martian sunsets and twilights and a few hand painted intermediate frames, to make a simulation of using that camera to obtain a color time lapse movie of a typical Martian Sunset.
This is more of an attempt to mimic the camera characteristics rather than an attempt to show how it would look to the human eye.
I made the other reference images 'conform' to the InSight camera characteristics, including overexposure near the Sun, but I removed the effects of extreme brightness on the camera optics. The resulting frames were cross dissolved while the Sun was separately composited in.

https://vimeo.com/323683959?fbclid=IwAR0-GZ...2Gd9S75kx8T0rok
MahFL
QUOTE (DDAVIS @ Mar 14 2019, 10:30 PM) *
After the InSight Lander captured some stages of a sunset I was inspired to try something...


Very nice.
vikingmars
QUOTE (DDAVIS @ Mar 14 2019, 11:30 PM) *
After the InSight Lander captured some stages of a sunset I was inspired to try something I had wanted to do for for a while. I decided to use those images, plus others collected of Martian sunsets and twilights and a few hand painted intermediate frames, to make a simulation of using that camera to obtain a color time lapse movie of a typical Martian Sunset.
This is more of an attempt to mimic the camera characteristics rather than an attempt to show how it would look to the human eye.
I made the other reference images 'conform' to the InSight camera characteristics, including overexposure near the Sun, but I removed the effects of extreme brightness on the camera optics. The resulting frames were cross dissolved while the Sun was separately composited in.

How nice Don ! Thanks so much ! wheel.gif wheel.gif wheel.gif wheel.gif wheel.gif wheel.gif
nprev
Spectacular, Don. Thank you!!!
rhr
There's a new post at the SEIS blog. A translation follows.

https://www.seis-insight.eu/fr/actualites/466-tgo-insight

ESA's Trace Gas Orbiter immotralises InSight from mars orbit

On 2 march 2019, the spacecraft TGO of ESA's ExoMars program managed to
photograph InSight on the surface of the red planet. It's the first time a
european orbiter has achieved this technical feat, which requires not only a
very high performance camera, but also special viewing conditions given the
relatively small size of the machine it has to resolve.

Launched 14 march 2016, TGO arrived in mars orbit the 16 october of the same
year, almost 13 years after the arrival of ESA's first mars orbiter, Mars
Express.

After a year of aerobreaking to acheive its final cartographic orbit, TGO began
its campaign of scientific observations at the end of april 2018. Although its
principal objective is to make a high-precision study of certain trace gasses
in the composition of the martian atmosphere, the orbiter can also fulfill
other roles, such as a radio relay.

TGO is equipped with two Electra radio transponders furnished by NASA, which
allow it to communicate with landers on the surface such as InSight. Along
with the american orbiters MRO and Odyssey, TGO regularly relays to earth data
from the geophysical station ever since its landing last 26 november on Elysium
Planitia, including during critical operations.

Up till now, the geometry of overflights of the landing site haven't been
suitable for pointing TGO's CaSSIS camera at the lander or the material it shed
during its perilous descent towards the martian equator. On 2 march, while the
heat probe HP3 began trying to dig itself into the ground, TGO passed directly
over InSight, a configuration which was perfect for snapping a photo of the
landing site.

Although the image obtained by TGO is certainly less precise than those taken
by spy camera HiRISE of MRO in december 2018 and again in february 2019, it
nevertheless shows many details like the blast zone around the lander (where
dust was blown away by the retrorockets), the heat shield, and also the
backshell (the parachute fabric is however not clearly identifiable). The
image covers an area of 2.25 km^2, and the resolution varies from 5 to 6 meters
per pixel (comapred to 25cm for HiRISE). The image has not been oriented
north-up.

Apart from its role in telecommunications, TGO will continue to support InSight
by regularly photographing the regions around the landing site in order to
identify new meteorite impacts. In order to determine the interior structure,
the seismometer SEIS takes advantage of two sources of signals: earthquakes
produced by sudden ruptures in rocky material at the level of the martian crust
and mantle, but also shockwaves linked with the impact of extraterrestrial
bolides on the surface. The ability to locate an impact very precisely (and
therefore the epicenter of the associated earthquake) will greatly aid the
interpretation of the data recorded by SEIS.
PaulH51
QUOTE (rhr @ Mar 17 2019, 07:34 AM) *
There's a new post at the SEIS blog. A translation follows.

Many thanks smile.gif
Phil Stooke
Update from LPSC - the final section of the panorama, to the west, will be filled in soon. Obstructions on the lander deck limit the arm's movements so the last bit of the horizon has to be imaged upside down with the arm pointing the other way and folded over. There will be morning and afternoon panoramas as well, which will be good for distant feature visibility (compare with Viking panoramas). The arm is not planned to dig any time soon. There had been talk of scooping up regolith and piling it in conical piles (as on Viking) to watch for changes due to wind. Now they plan to use disturbed soil around the footpads, SEIS tether and HP3 feet to monitor changes. Lastly, dust devil and cloud surveys have been made but nothing observed yet, though 'vortices' (dustless dust devils) pass over the lander multiple times each sol.

Phil
fredk
Thanks for the update. I'm curious what makes them say "dustless", as pressure wouldn't tell you that - perhaps simultaneous imaging?
Phil Stooke
They have the radiometer too, it would probably record the dimming caused by the passing shadow or the entrained dust. But I think what they mean - or i should have said - is they see lots of vortices in the met and/or other data but have yet to see a visible DD.

Phil
PaulH51
HP3 Mission update / Logbook entry: 21 March 2019, defines the next steps for the mole link
PaulH51
GIF cropped from sol 110 & 111 ICC frames shows a little movement of the HP3 engineering tether.

Windy day on Mars? Maybe a passing vortex? smile.gif
Click to view attachment
rhr
Anothe SEIS post.

https://www.seis-insight.eu/fr/actualites/4...mmissioning-end

Evaluation of the commisioning phase of seismometer SEIS on mars

The instrument commisioning period of SEIS, which began after the wind and
thermal sheild (WTS) was set in place saturday 2 february 2019, will finish up
on 5 april next. During this period many crucial operations have been
successfully undertaken involving the seismic data recorders, notably the VBB
pendulums.

Thermal stability: WTS is a peaceful shelter

After the deployment of the WTS shield over SEIS during sol 66, engineers were
immediately impressed by the improvement in the thermal environment it
acheived. In order to characterise the amount of stabilisation offered by this
portable "seismic cave", it was decided to temporarily disable the heaters that
usually protect the instrument during the coldest part of the day on mars.
Simulations indicated that with WTS the daily temperature variations would be
small enough for it to be safe to shut down the heaters for several days
without risk to the instrument. Subsequent analysis by thermal engineers show
that the protective bell of WTS is working perfectly.

Thanks to the improved thermal protection provided by WTS (which merely adds to
several barriers already in place, such as the spherical enclosure under vacuum
housing the VBB pendulums, the RWEB heat shield, or the TCDM device situated
among the pendulums) SEIS's six sensors could be turned on for the first time
on sol 70 without interruption.

Activating TCDM: the ultimate thermal protection for the pendulums

The VBB pendulums of SEIS are equipped with a mechanism specifically made for
mars (and not present on earthly seismometers) whose purpose is to reduce as
much as possible the residual thermal variation of the spherical vacuum vessel
in which they're installed. Called TCDM, this ingenious device passively
displaces the center of gravity according to the temperature. It works on the
principle of differential thermal expansion of two metals which expand or
contract according to the temperature changes in the sphere like an accordion.
In order to neutralise the temperature changes as much as possible, the
orientation of TCDM requires a fine adjustment.

During sol 77, engineers implemented a first adjustment to reduce as much as
possible the thermal sensitivity of each pendulum independently of the others
(other strategies could be tried, such as a reduction of noise in a specific
frequency band, or an adjustment maximising the sensitivity of all three
pendulums combined). The TCDM of pendulum #1 was turned -5°, that of #2 +20°C,
while the TCDM of pendulum #3 was left as is (0°). [Note it says 20°C for #2
but this looks like a typo to me. I think these numbers are degrees of arc,
but I'm not sure - rhr]

After an analysis of the effects obtained, a further adjustment was made on sol
81 (+1° for VBB #1, +22° for #2, and +2° for #3). After these changes in
orientation the adjustments were judged satisfactory by the engineers in charge
of performance, which permitted an increase of instrument gain in science mode.
The VBB pendulums can work in two modes, engineering (robust but insensitive),
and science (more precise but with a risk of saturating the detector) which has
a variable gain. Thanks to TCDM the pendulums can now work at their maximum
sensitivity.

Calibration of the pendulums

The calibration of the VBB pendulums represents another essential step in the
commisioning phase of SEIS. This step, necessary for correct interpretation of
the instrument's data, consists of generating a sequence of artificial
vibrations from the large exterior feedback system coil, and observing the
reaction of each pendulum to the vibration.

On sol 77 the first stage of the calibration began in engineering mode (high
gain) at a determined temperature. A second stage of calibration was then
performed on sols 85-93 in science mode, this time with one pendulum at a time,
and at three different temperatures (its maximum daily value, minimum and
medium). Calibration was also performed on the SP sensors at the beginning of
february.

In addition to the official calibration, two fundamental parameters of the VBB
sensors, the natural frequency (the frequency at which it vibrates on its own,
which should be as weak as possible), and the quality factor (the rate at which
a given perturbation of the pendulum decreases over time) were also determined
for the first time on mars and compared with the values measured on earth.

The last step in the commissioning process for SEIS consists of a test
modifying the known height of the feet of the levelling platform to look at the
induced effect, in particular the difference between the response of the
short-period (SP) and very-broadband (VBB) sensors.

Following the penetration of HP3

In parallel with the calibration efforts, SEIS has also been listening to the
vibrations generated by the mole of heat probe HP3 as it forced itself into the
ground on sols 92 and 94. Unfortunately the mole stopped its progress as soon
as it started. Most likekly a rock or layer of gravel prevents it from going
in further, but given the fact that its vertical inclination measurement
changed (from the resistance it encountered) it is equally possible that it has
become snagged inside its support tube.

Data have shown that the SP sensors on SEIS, good for high-frequency
measurements, show not only the ground penetration but also the internal
movements of the mole's parts. As for VBB, when the mole starts hammering the
sensors get saturated.

In order to figure out what's blocking the mole as it goes into the ground, a
third hammering attempt of 10-15 minutes will shortly occur.

With the SP sensors the objective is to determine with maximum precision the
movements of the internal parts of the mole when it performs a hammer blow to
move forward. A digital filter will be installed in the electronic command
system of SEIS to increase the temporal resolution. Depending on what SP hears
it may be possible to determine if the mole is advancing even slowly, if it's
continually hammering against an obstacle, or whether it's totally blocked.

A second digital filter will also be activated to prevent the saturation of the
ultra-sensitive VBB during HP3's hammering operations. Because of the
differences in seismic wave propagation in different materials it may be
possible to see if there's a harder layer around 30cm deep.

The red planet under seismic surveillance

Spread out over 62 sols, the commissioning phase allows us to test each
subsystem effectively. Procedures for downloading data (whether from continual
data collection, or on-demand high-resolution data) and for uploading command
sequences have also been validated. This more than satisfactory evaluation
allows us to begin the scientific campaign, which officially starts 5 april
2019 and lasts one mars year. So on Elysium Planitia everything is now in
place for the first detection of mars earthquakes to reveal the interior
structure of mars.
PaulH51
Animated GIF using a pair of processed frames from sol 117 and sol 118, shows a little movement in the HP3 housing.

The HP3 PI's blog update of 22 March mentioned a short diagnostic hammering on Wednesday, which I suspect resulted in the changes seen between these frames. Hopefully we'll get an update in the coming days from the team and also a few more images, especially from the ICC camera images from much later in the sol when the sun will fill the shadows under the housing smile.gif

Click to view attachment
Phil Stooke
New images fill in the last bit of the horizon - they are the upside-down ones of recent sols. This is a circular projection of just the horizon strip.

Phil

Click to view attachment
vikingmars
QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 1 2019, 01:07 AM) *
New images fill in the last bit of the horizon - they are the upside-down ones of recent sols. This is a circular projection of just the horizon strip. Phil

CONGRATULATIONS Phil wheel.gif wheel.gif wheel.gif wheel.gif
PaulH51
Then & Now: Sol 10 & 122, processed IDC frames. Not a very fair comparison as one frame was acquired just after sunrise, the other less than an hour before solar noon, but it does highlight the levels of dust accumulating on this solar array. Time for a friendly DD to make a call on InSight? smile.gif
Click to view attachment
Explorer1
Fresh update on HP3: https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/04/03/insig...n-be-recovered/

QUOTE
Engineers have used InSight’s cameras and seismic sensors to diagnose the HP3 instrument’s situation. During a third short hammering session March 27, ground controllers tuned the lander’s seismometer to listen to the vibrations created by the mole in an attempt to assess whether the probe is pushing against a single rock or a thick layer of gravel.

“The character of the seismic signal is changing, especially between the initial hammering … There are changes happening in the response,” Banerdt said March 26, referring to the seismometer’s measurements of the probe’s first hammering operation.

“There are changes happening in the response (of the rock),” Banerdt said. “We think we can analyze some of that stuff in terms of both the reverberation of soil versus rock, and also in terms of actual individual substrokes within the hammer itself. The hammer actually has about 5 different sub-strokes as it hits and rebounds and different parts of it absorb the impact.”


The obstruction is at around 30 cm; is that too deep for the scoop to excavate nearby and find out how big the obstruction is, or if it's a layer under the whole worksite?
MahFL
QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Apr 3 2019, 06:19 PM) *
Fresh update on HP3: https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/04/03/insig...n-be-recovered/



The obstruction is at around 30 cm; is that too deep for the scoop to excavate nearby and find out how big the obstruction is, or if it's a layer under the whole worksite?



At the end of the day digging it out or pulling it might be needed. Where the mole is now it's not going to work.
stevesliva
QUOTE (MahFL @ Apr 3 2019, 09:26 PM) *
At the end of the day digging it out or pulling it might be needed. Where the mole is now it's not going to work.


They seem to think the mole's tendency to turn around obstructions is hindered by the rear end still being in the housing.

I couldn't gather whether the seismic data has led to any conclusions, either about what's underground, or what to do.
vikingmars
At the InSight site on Mars, Sol 122 of its mission at 07:10 AM : "Impression Soleil Levant"...
Enjoy smile.gif
Click to view attachment
climber
Thank you VikingMonnetMars 😃
vikingmars
QUOTE (climber @ Apr 5 2019, 01:15 PM) *
Thank you VikingMonnetMars 😃

Thanks Climber laugh.gif
tanjent
I hope the mission managers can emulate the experience of Hayabusa (I). When things don't go precisely according to plan, then robotic exploration must rely on the human capacity to think creatively and innovate. They have a superbly sensitive instrument placed on the surface of a planet millions of miles distant, and that set of advantages is not going to not going to come along again any time soon. It will be interesting to see if they can find a way to work around the obstacle, buth literally and figuratively.
nprev
Hmm. If the acoustic response is changing between strokes without changing hammering mode/frequency, that may imply that this is indeed an isolated--and relatively small?--rock rather than a layer since the changes would presumably be caused by small movements of the rock itself.

That's obviously an optimistic interpretation of a description of data we are not privy to, but I at least see some hope here.
polaris
QUOTE (vikingmars @ Apr 4 2019, 11:18 PM) *
At the InSight site on Mars, Sol 122 of its mission at 07:10 AM : "Impression Soleil Levant"...
Enjoy smile.gif

Bravo, Olivier !
Je suis impressionné par l"impressionniste spatial".
vikingmars
QUOTE (polaris @ Apr 6 2019, 11:46 PM) *
Bravo, Olivier ! Je suis impressionné par l"impressionniste spatial".

Thanks so much Polaris for your kind words smile.gif
PaulH51
DLR HP3 Logbook entry dated 11 April 2019: link
stevesliva
Interesting that they think the possibility that it's a buried obstruction is rather low, and that they're leaning towards the idea that it don't have the leverage that friction with the sides of the borehole would allow.

Makes me more optimistic about things than I have been before. Thanks again for keeping watch on that page.
Phil Stooke
We are getting a lot of really nice low sun angle images at the moment. They will make a lovely panorama eventually.

Phil
PaulH51
QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 19 2019, 05:00 AM) *
We are getting a lot of really nice low sun angle images at the moment. They will make a lovely panorama eventually.

Here is one of the processed frames I think Phil is referring to to smile.gif

I called this one “Pulvis et Umbra Sumus" from Horace (We are dust and shadows)
Click to view attachment
atomoid
That surely will be eye candy for us all. I'm not sure what the ongoing plans are for the ICC, but it seems an interesting application which may be of minimal impact to ongoing operations could be to program ICC to snap a picture at the same time(s) every sol, eventually due to the ICC unique stable viewpoint and timing for a full Mars year would result in a very stable 25 second time lapse highlighting primarily the tau and seasonal changes framed with a sidebar showing weather data at the time of each image, for what that is worth. So far the timing of the ICC has seemed sporadic from day to day based on need, so by chance finding suitable frames to put together something comparable seems hit or miss for now, but going forward it would be enriching if something like that can happen.
PaulH51
QUOTE (atomoid @ Apr 19 2019, 07:57 AM) *
...to program ICC to snap a picture at the same time(s) every sol...

That's a great idea, I hope they do that, but I also hope it would not be too difficult to ensure they acquire the images at the same local solar time(s) each sol and possibly at the same manual exposure setting(s) so we can see the subtle effects of the lightening and darkening with the changing tau rather than auto exposure settings that tends to even things out. I realise we will eventually get the exposure data but the PDS is always a long way behind citizen processing smile.gif

Talking of PDS, anyone heard any whispers on when we will see the first PDS data entries for this mission? After all we're approaching 5 months since landing (144 earth days) smile.gif
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