Ustrax, would you mind to give a hug to this IDD so we can move on?
Full Version: Victoria here we come...
The IDD doesn't seam to like the smooth terrain we're driving on at this time.
Ustrax, would you mind to give a hug to this IDD so we can move on?
Ustrax, would you mind to give a hug to this IDD so we can move on?
QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 28 2006, 08:35 AM) 
You guys are a bunch of panic merchants. We don't know what, if anything, is wrong - and we're already at the "THEY CAN'T STAY HERE FOR WEEKS" phase. Seriously seriously seriously guys.....stop the panic and criticism of things that havn't even happened yet.
I agree with Doug. Dont panic at every problem. Give it some time. A broken off IDD would be just about the worst outcome, especially given that the extension renewal budget was slashed by about half and will only get even tighter in the future. Yes, I hope any delay is just a week or two not a month or more but am quite happy to be patient and not rush into disaster due to perceived schedule pressure.
ken
QUOTE (nprev @ Aug 27 2006, 08:52 PM)
Thanks for the reminder, Rodolfo...I'll be quite happy to lose this pool (sol 1237 was my guess!) 
No, anyone never knows what will happen. It is like a roulette!
You might be a winner! Rodolfo
The sun conjunction would happen on October 23, 2006, it is about 2 months away.
Oppy is at about 215 meters away from Victoria rim, there is plenty time to investigate the best way to unstow the IDD and meantime, the next days of rest, the restore of IDD would be much better with batteries much better charged in order to flush a greater voltage to the IDD's actuators motors to break its stuck momentum.
Besides, that place is nothing dusty and hope there will be more gust wind to sweep dust on the solar panels.
Worst of all, if the IDD is not able to unstow, Oppy might be driving on very smooth surface up to close to Victoria rim to take sensational panaromic pictures of a very big HOLE.
Rodolfo
Oppy is at about 215 meters away from Victoria rim, there is plenty time to investigate the best way to unstow the IDD and meantime, the next days of rest, the restore of IDD would be much better with batteries much better charged in order to flush a greater voltage to the IDD's actuators motors to break its stuck momentum.
Besides, that place is nothing dusty and hope there will be more gust wind to sweep dust on the solar panels.
Worst of all, if the IDD is not able to unstow, Oppy might be driving on very smooth surface up to close to Victoria rim to take sensational panaromic pictures of a very big HOLE.
Rodolfo
QUOTE (ustrax @ Aug 28 2006, 11:23 AM)
I'm back, thanks for waiting! 
We can move on...
We can move on...
Ciaooo Ustrax!
Happy to hear you, are you out of the abyss?
Good chunk of IDD diagnostics for tosol
CODE
923 p1154.01 2 0 0 2 0 4 front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
923 p1298.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_loco_pri_17
923 p1298.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_loco_pri_17
923 p1298.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_loco_pri_17
923 p1298.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_loco_pri_17
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1298.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_loco_pri_17
923 p1298.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_loco_pri_17
923 p1298.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_loco_pri_17
923 p1298.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_loco_pri_17
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
923 p1299.00 2 2 0 0 0 4 front_hazcam_IDD_sub_512x512_1_bpp_pri_14
A lot of that could be duplicates because often stuff is doubled or trebbled up on the DB - but there's no doubt that that's plenty of diagnostic imageyr
Doug
Doug
QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 28 2006, 03:35 AM)
Seriously seriously seriously guys.....stop the panic...
Gee, Doug, are you saying I ought to go out and get a book with DON'T PANIC written on the cover in large, friendly letters?
I'm not panicking. I'm just observing that Oppy's remaining useful lifetime is finite, and that I thought the time spent (longer than the original Prime Mission length) at Overgaard, last time there was an IDD issue, was inappropriately long. I think it's time to be a touch less cautious and a touch more bold.
Just a touch, mind you...
-the other Doug
QUOTE (Nirgal @ Aug 28 2006, 04:08 AM)
My postiong above was never meant as panic-making, and I took dvandorn's original comment only from the humorous, ironic side: Of course neither of us seriously thinks we will spend 100 Sols here ...
...Exactly -- I was simple exaggerating for emphasis. Though, as I've said, I did think that the stay at Overgaard was overly long, and bespoke more caution than I think is appropriate with a resource that is on the verge of being within visual range of a great stratigraphic sequence (and yet might die any day).
As I said, I'd like to see just a touch more boldness, here. Then again, I'm not the guy who has to answer for it if they decide to be bold and something goes wrong. It just seemed to me that they spent tens and tens of sols figuring out how to drive Oppy without having to stow the arm in the normal manner, when the conclusion they finally came to was that they ought to just proceed as normal and hope the remaining winding doesn't give way. Any time you spend that large a fraction of a resource's useful lifetime investigating procedures that you decide not to use, I think someone is being overly cautious. Or that the debate over how to proceed is being allowed to run on *way* too long.
-the other Doug
Is there any word from "insiders" on the IDD issue and how long they are planning to troubleshoot?
QUOTE (Bubbinski @ Aug 29 2006, 02:12 PM)
Is there any word from "insiders" on the IDD issue and how long they are planning to troubleshoot?
I'm no insider but.
If, as is most likely, the problem is just a stall of the semi-broken shoulder motor then there should be just one sol of troubleshooting (tosol) to confirm this. If it 's something else then it's anybodys guess.
I'm no insider myself, but I know that the MER team, for good reasons, places great stock in its "Athena" instrumentaion package -- which includes the Mossbauer spectometer on the extensible arm. Steve is a bloodhound. Even if we get to the edge of Victoria and take some remarkable photos -- but can't sniff around -- he will be exasperated, to say the least.
I agree with Doug van Dorn on this issue. Sitting here with the clock ticking on a flat, near-perfect driving surface ands doing NO science (except for a sequence of L1 partial-frame Pancams) is no good when a alternate IDD stowage procedure was developed. If the IDD is unusable, do a full-filter Pancam sequence of the wheel scuff and move on to the next station on the traverse. And/or drop the MB onto the wheel scuf and let it be integrating whilst we thumb-twiddle.
As o`Doug said, a touch more bold...
--Bill
As o`Doug said, a touch more bold...
--Bill
QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 29 2006, 04:51 AM)
at Overgaard, last time there was an IDD issue, was inappropriately long. I think it's time to be a touch less cautious and a touch more bold.
Just a touch, mind you...
Just a touch, mind you...
We got the first full filter panorama of the mission, and found THE best evidence for morphology indicative of running water at all. Without that 'caution' - we would not have had either. Frustrating...yes.
Just wondering - how would you propose we investigate Victoria dragging an IDD that's snapped off because we've been a touch more bold?
When it comes to the IDD, I would exercise extreme caution wherever possible. We HAVE to have it intact when we get to Victoria or the journey for the past 500 sols will have been little more than a sight seing tour.
I'll commit the crime of using days not sols - but it will make sense. Sat, Sun and Mon were scheduled, as we all know, all on Friday. The longevity of this mission is sustainable only by using 5 day weeks. So Tuesday is the first possible day when they can command a sequence in the knowledge of the IDD problem.
"If the IDD is unusable"...they don't know yet. Do you? They will hopefully find out in the next 24 hrs. They have scheduled diagnostics at the first possible Opportunity.
"And/or drop the MB onto the wheel scuf "...the last IDD sequence they commanded didn't work. They need to find out why. It may be that we've lost another winding on that motor. It may be that they just had a current limit set too low. We don't know enough at this point to make any decision on what is the next best step.
They're troubleshooting at the first POSSIBLE opportunity, there has been no "Sitting here" - it's just how the scheduling and the IDD fault clashed badly. We've lost 3 sols. That's it. They're being as bold given the timing, as it is humanly possible to do - commanding IDD motion on the very first sol they could after discovering the problem. They could have run some static diagnostics...but they're actually moving a broken arm at the first possible chance. They couldn't BE more bold.
A reality check : the initial MER design specification cited that they would loose 1 sol out of every 3 due to sequencing, communication or other technical issues.
There's conclusion jumping and unjustified criticism in buckets in this thread.
Doug
A agree with Doug.
I think, so far, we're getting nervous because it's just bad timing. Problem occured when people were going out for the week-end, so now, they do the most evident think : assess the problem. It they confirm it's the same problem encountered before, they'll probably move along very soon. If it's something new, I'm sure they'll not make any move before understanding what it is. So far, it's just pragmatism.
I think, so far, we're getting nervous because it's just bad timing. Problem occured when people were going out for the week-end, so now, they do the most evident think : assess the problem. It they confirm it's the same problem encountered before, they'll probably move along very soon. If it's something new, I'm sure they'll not make any move before understanding what it is. So far, it's just pragmatism.
Not sure if already posted, this is not new but on Sol916 we had a nice view of Epsilon and West-Victoria:
Click to view attachment
Compare to this older view including Delta (?) crater (Sol912):
Click to view attachment
In both images, vertical stretch x5 as usual.
Interestingly, on Sol916 I decided to use L2 Pancam pictures instead of R2 because quality was slighly better, contrary to what previously noticed.
(however, biggest differences are on the NavCam...)
Click to view attachment
Compare to this older view including Delta (?) crater (Sol912):
Click to view attachment
In both images, vertical stretch x5 as usual.
Interestingly, on Sol916 I decided to use L2 Pancam pictures instead of R2 because quality was slighly better, contrary to what previously noticed.
(however, biggest differences are on the NavCam...)
QUOTE (climber @ Aug 29 2006, 09:32 AM)
A agree with Doug.
I think, so far, we're getting nervous because it's just bad timing. Problem occured when people were going out for the week-end, so now, they do the most evident think : assess the problem. It they confirm it's the same problem encountered before, they'll probably move along very soon. If it's something new, I'm sure they'll not make any move before understanding what it is. So far, it's just pragmatism.
I think, so far, we're getting nervous because it's just bad timing. Problem occured when people were going out for the week-end, so now, they do the most evident think : assess the problem. It they confirm it's the same problem encountered before, they'll probably move along very soon. If it's something new, I'm sure they'll not make any move before understanding what it is. So far, it's just pragmatism.
Very well put. Full ACK
we can not yet compare this situation with the very long Olympia/PGII stay (when back then, I must admit I too did not quite understand why Oppy did not continue the southward Trek a little bit sooner
But now we are only in the very first Sols into investigations of the new IDD Issue and the most important thing is to not do anything before the problem is understood at all ...
I would not even consider one or two additional weeks of investigations as over-cautious if this time is necessary until we understand any potential impact this problem may have on the driving.
But once we do understand the problem well enough that we can ensure safe driving, I'm sure Oppy will soon continue the Trek to the rim and doing any remaining fine-tuning of the IDD-problem analysis there while at the same time also being able to do first non-IDD science observations (pancam) etc.
And we should also not forget the "gift" of the unexpectedly easy driving terrain on the Apron ... this alone
may have safed us many dozens of Sols compared to a more difficult terrain ...
So, luckily, we are still well within the time frame including one or two weeks of troble-shooting
It is highly possible that at some point, the more sensitive instruments will be limited or non functioning. As long as we have mobility and cameras, alot of science and exploration can be done.
Personally, I enjoy the exploration aspect more than the science.
Let's get a move on!
Personally, I enjoy the exploration aspect more than the science.
Let's get a move on!
QUOTE (gregp1962 @ Aug 29 2006, 07:14 PM)
Let's get a move on!
Once we know how the IDD's doing....we'll do some science and then get a move on
Doug
QUOTE (gregp1962 @ Aug 29 2006, 08:14 PM)
It is highly possible that at some point, the more sensitive instruments will be limited or non functioning. As long as we have mobility and cameras, alot of science and exploration can be done.
As Doug said with differents words : Steve's the Boss and Anthena's his baby and ... is located on the IDD. If you've red "Roving Mars" you've seen that he considers the rest as a mean to bring the Athena's package where needed. Even is I agree (and wish) they can do science with the cameras
, they are not going to give up. Tipical JPL's way of flying ( ) spacecrafts
New front haz cams are down now, I don't see any movement yet, they might be old pics, I don't know how to read the time stamps.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...8ZP1298R0M1.JPG
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...8ZP1298R0M1.JPG
Seems like they are checking out the IDD with Pan cam as well.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...8ZP2133L7M1.JPG
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...8ZP2133L7M1.JPG
There are movements, but they are small...
Hazcam:
Pancam:
And it's indeed the azimuth motor they are testing. Don't know if this small movement should be seen as good news. If I remember back at Olympia they applied more current and moved in small bits like they do now.
Hazcam:
Pancam:
And it's indeed the azimuth motor they are testing. Don't know if this small movement should be seen as good news. If I remember back at Olympia they applied more current and moved in small bits like they do now.
And to anyone panicking about this - remember what the rovers already have gone through, and made it out of.
Spirit had a memory problem very early in the mission, but that was recovered. Its one wheel nearly seized up because of lubrication problems, but that was countered with reversing the drive direction. Now one wheel has seized up entirely, but the drivers were able to adapt to that.
Opportunity has had to endure frequent use of deep sleep because of its stuck switch. It reboots sometimes without warning. The miniature thermal emission spectrometer acts funny sometimes. The front right wheel can't steer. It got stuck wheel-deep in a sand ripple. And the robotic arm doesn't always feel like moving the first time it's told. But thus far, there's always been a workaround. This just seems like another stall that hopefully won't be anything we haven't seen before.
I do see a little bit of movement today too.
Sample 1
Sample 2
There is some slight side-to-side movement. 3 of the images that came down (well, left-side anyway) show a slight movement to the side. The movement is also visible in the Pancam images.
Spirit had a memory problem very early in the mission, but that was recovered. Its one wheel nearly seized up because of lubrication problems, but that was countered with reversing the drive direction. Now one wheel has seized up entirely, but the drivers were able to adapt to that.
Opportunity has had to endure frequent use of deep sleep because of its stuck switch. It reboots sometimes without warning. The miniature thermal emission spectrometer acts funny sometimes. The front right wheel can't steer. It got stuck wheel-deep in a sand ripple. And the robotic arm doesn't always feel like moving the first time it's told. But thus far, there's always been a workaround. This just seems like another stall that hopefully won't be anything we haven't seen before.
I do see a little bit of movement today too.
Sample 1
Sample 2
There is some slight side-to-side movement. 3 of the images that came down (well, left-side anyway) show a slight movement to the side. The movement is also visible in the Pancam images.
Jeff7 : Good post. It has refreshed us the memory of all problems that the MER had confronted and we have a much better view of on how to solve the problem. This enriches us the experience to face better the problems ! Good post!
Rodolfo
Rodolfo
Looks like they have restored the IDD back to normal! At least the are redoing the arm work they planned for the weekend
CODE
924 p1110.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_haz_mi_1024x1024x1bpp_pri56
924 p1110.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_haz_mi_1024x1024x1bpp_pri56
924 p1110.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_haz_mi_1024x1024x1bpp_pri56
924 p1121.03 0 0 0 0 0 0 fhaz_idd_apxs_doc_512x512x1bpp_pri56
924 p1154.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
924 p2090.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 pancam_cal_targ_L247R27
924 p2371.08 0 0 0 0 0 0 pancam_photom_east_L247R27
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
924 p2936.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_veryhigh
924 p2936.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_veryhigh
924 p2936.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_veryhigh
924 p2936.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_veryhigh
924 p2936.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_veryhigh
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 Total 0 0 0 0 0 0
924 p1110.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_haz_mi_1024x1024x1bpp_pri56
924 p1110.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_haz_mi_1024x1024x1bpp_pri56
924 p1121.03 0 0 0 0 0 0 fhaz_idd_apxs_doc_512x512x1bpp_pri56
924 p1154.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
924 p2090.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 pancam_cal_targ_L247R27
924 p2371.08 0 0 0 0 0 0 pancam_photom_east_L247R27
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
924 p2936.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_veryhigh
924 p2936.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_veryhigh
924 p2936.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_veryhigh
924 p2936.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_veryhigh
924 p2936.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_veryhigh
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2957.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss3_LUT3_high
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 p2977.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_min3_DN2000_LUT3_medium
924 Total 0 0 0 0 0 0
Great! You don't know how happy that makes me...
-the other Doug
-the other Doug
Outstanding! While some good science could still have been done with only the cameras and a limited arm, it would have been an awful shame to arrive at the mother of all outcrops with a seriously crippled instrument deployment device. I was prepared for a longer diagnostic period, and was surprised that such small movements apparently defined success, but hey, I'm not complaining. I am very much looking forward to some MIs of the scuff.
Has anyone heard what the issue was?
Just an escalation of the winding problem perhaps, they just ramped up the voltage again?
Just an escalation of the winding problem perhaps, they just ramped up the voltage again?
Im all happy too, even though I didnt think anything that the rover once again have gotten to the 'all stop' warning when trying to deploy the arm.
Too bad though they couldnt have done that idd-work though, it was one of those things best done in the wekend when the rover have no mission planners/drivers around.
Not that I complain, the MER's are quite different from most other missions (except from a number of those on the Moon some decades ago) and demand more.
In one flyby mission the spacecraft cameras and instruments are more or less dormant for years ending with a lot of planning and intense days for those involved when it gets near the goal.
Even orbiters are different, theres no planning where they go, but rather passively check what areas they will pass over and choose imaging targets from that.
Spirit and Opportunity on the other hand do actively interact with the area they investigate.
Too bad though they couldnt have done that idd-work though, it was one of those things best done in the wekend when the rover have no mission planners/drivers around.
Not that I complain, the MER's are quite different from most other missions (except from a number of those on the Moon some decades ago) and demand more.
In one flyby mission the spacecraft cameras and instruments are more or less dormant for years ending with a lot of planning and intense days for those involved when it gets near the goal.
Even orbiters are different, theres no planning where they go, but rather passively check what areas they will pass over and choose imaging targets from that.
Spirit and Opportunity on the other hand do actively interact with the area they investigate.
QUOTE (jaredGalen @ Aug 30 2006, 10:06 AM)
Has anyone heard what the issue was?
Just an escalation of the winding problem perhaps, they just ramped up the voltage again?
Just an escalation of the winding problem perhaps, they just ramped up the voltage again?
Just an excuse to get to VC on Sol 935
BTW, I'm very happy. That make me think that all the "wasted" time spent before was NOT wasted at all. They seams to have carracterised IDD behavior pretty well
QUOTE (Myran @ Aug 30 2006, 10:15 AM)
Spirit and Opportunity on the other hand do actively interact with the area they investigate.
...and planers have to be pro-active...and UMSF'ers would be even more pro-active if they were in charge
QUOTE (climber @ Aug 30 2006, 03:19 AM)
...and UMSF'ers would be even more pro-active if they were in charge
Hey, that's not a bad idea! You know, if we could just get someone to donate half a billion dollars we could put that into practice
We easily have a pool of expertise on this site to manage a rover mission. Doug, you'll have to be PI (meaning you get to do all the hard work, and claim most of the glory). Let's get a proposal written up...
QUOTE (algorimancer @ Aug 30 2006, 12:51 PM)
Hey, that's not a bad idea! You know, if we could just get someone to donate half a billion dollars we could put that into practice Doug, you'll have to be PI Let's get a proposal written up...
Doug, you'll have to be PI Let's get a proposal written up...Well recently, 2 well known billionaires have donated tens of billions to good causes
and another one is financing Space Ship 1 + 2
QUOTE (mars loon @ Aug 30 2006, 08:05 AM)
Well recently, 2 well known billionaires have donated tens of billions to good causes
and another one is financing Space Ship 1 + 2
and another one is financing Space Ship 1 + 2
Who are they?
I haven't heard of it for Space's cause.
Rodolfo
Not sure that the below command sequence means that the problem is already solved since the most command sequence is not of my full understanding. I incurr to USMF if someone would shed light to it.
Trying to interpret the half encrypted the command sequence for Oppy:
924 p1154.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
Rodolfo
P.D.
I think that "mi_open_min*" are related to Microcroper Instrument. Their suffix might be related to the different resolutions.
Trying to interpret the half encrypted the command sequence for Oppy:
924 p1154.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
- Put out the IDD to work
- Shutter PANCAM on the desired target (I think it is VC) with all color spectrum.
- Shutter PANCAM on the photom???(maybe on BC) East with all color spectrum.
- Many times, Not yet understand it. Maybe it is related to the variation of voltage or ampere?
- Many times, Not yet understand it. Maybe it is related to the variation of voltage or ampere?
- Many times, Not yet understand it. Maybe it is related to the variation of voltage or ampere?
- Many times, Not yet understand it. Maybe it is related to the variation of voltage or ampere?
Rodolfo
P.D.
I think that "mi_open_min*" are related to Microcroper Instrument. Their suffix might be related to the different resolutions.
QUOTE (dot.dk @ Aug 30 2006, 05:41 PM)
Here are MI's from SOL 924
My impression is that there are more rounded pebbles on the annulus than there were in the "etched terrain", at least relative to other pebbles of similar size.
QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 30 2006, 06:24 PM)
Who are they?
I haven't heard of it for Space's cause.
Rodolfo
I haven't heard of it for Space's cause.
Rodolfo
Elon Musk and Paul Allen have both put quite a few million into various space related endeavours. Admittedly neither of them comes close to the sort of insane money that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have put into the Gates Foundation ($45 billion or so in total I think). However given that the Gates Foundation is actually doing some pretty decent stuff with that cash, like attempting to eradicate Polio for example, I suppose that's OK.
QUOTE (helvick @ Aug 30 2006, 02:13 PM)
Elon Musk and Paul Allen have both put quite a few million into various space related endeavours. Admittedly neither of them comes close to the sort of insane money that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have put into the Gates Foundation ($45 billion or so in total I think). However given that the Gates Foundation is actually doing some pretty decent stuff with that cash, like attempting to eradicate Polio for example, I suppose that's OK.
All what you have said is true! I didn't recall of any space contributor as "Billionaries" but as "millionaries" such as the Allen with SpaceShipOne and Musk with Space X.
Rodolfo
Let me show you how I would do to assess how to explore VC. After a remark from Doug about long baseline imagery necessity and good "rovability" around VC, instead of coming in strait, I'll go first to the closest part of the rim, spend say 2 weeks there, move around 90° that will take another two weeks (only), then go to the rim for 2 weeks etc and do the whole circle. Whole loop will be a ride of nearly 3 kms on smooth terrain so, I think it is achiveable and will take about 4 months i.e. 120 Sols or so.
Actualy my concern is that VC is so huge that we can assess how are the rim and the cliffs only from the other side and that's why I propose this.
Here is a rougth map based on Ant 103's terragen :
Click to view attachment
I know, that's may be too much for the Old Little Lady, but I bet that if mobility is partialy lost during the loop, she can still crawl to the nearest point of the rim.
I'm interested to compare this to all other wild plans you're probably ready to propose
. We're not followers, aren't we ?
Actualy my concern is that VC is so huge that we can assess how are the rim and the cliffs only from the other side and that's why I propose this.
Here is a rougth map based on Ant 103's terragen :
Click to view attachment
I know, that's may be too much for the Old Little Lady, but I bet that if mobility is partialy lost during the loop, she can still crawl to the nearest point of the rim.
I'm interested to compare this to all other wild plans you're probably ready to propose
. We're not followers, aren't we ?
Wow....thanks, Climber, that really illustrates the magnitude of Victoria!!!
BTW, let's refer to Oppy as The Grand Old Lady...she has surely etched herself into the annals of space exploration as one of the most successful missions in history!
BTW, let's refer to Oppy as The Grand Old Lady...she has surely etched herself into the annals of space exploration as one of the most successful missions in history!
QUOTE (climber @ Aug 30 2006, 01:12 PM)
Let me show you how I would do to assess how to explore VC.
I see you have Oppportunity not examining the Beacon until the Fourth Contact.
In response to your inquiry, Climber, I think your plan looks generally sound. The chief variables would seem to be access points to the interior & whatever visible new strata may be seen that are amenible to remote sensing from the rim. Victoria obviously punched a far bigger (and deeper) hole in the crust than Endeavour; sure hope that some good stuff is still exposed, and not totally covered by dust!
QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Aug 30 2006, 11:53 PM)
I see you have Oppportunity not examining the Beacon until the Fourth Contact.
Oups, you're right Boss, we'd better rove counter clockwise
Well, if the science we are after is located at the lower regions of the crater I think we should 'dive in' at the very first 'driveable' entry point. Maybe there are interesting layers on the far rim but even so, getting there would be easier by crossing the crater instead of spending months circumnavigating the beast. This plan does require that we find driveable entry points in the first place of course.
QUOTE (Cugel @ Aug 30 2006, 06:43 PM)
Well, if the science we are after is located at the lower regions of the crater I think we should 'dive in' at the very first 'driveable' entry point. Maybe there are interesting layers on the far rim but even so, getting there would be easier by crossing the crater instead of spending months circumnavigating the beast. This plan does require that we find driveable entry points in the first place of course.
According to the JPL rover's style, they never has gone around the Home Plate, Endurance and neither to Eagle but just go directly to any point of interest.
I think it is a better plan by finding a best place to drive down in order to reach any interesting point with shorter distance than to circle around the Victoria's rim. Around close to the walls of rim there seems to have a drivable sand surface (not at the center of crater which is rough).
Rodolfo
I seems that miniTES, X Ray spectometer or Mousebauer has limited range of few meters to scan the surface.
QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 31 2006, 03:33 AM)
Not sure that the below command sequence means that the problem is already solved since the most command sequence is not of my full understanding. I incurr to USMF if someone would shed light to it.
Trying to interpret the half encrypted the command sequence for Oppy:
Trying to interpret the half encrypted the command sequence for Oppy:
The thing to remember here is that these are not "command sequences" they are names of *imaging* sequences. So for example your first line
QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 31 2006, 03:33 AM)
924 p1154.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
- Put out the IDD to work
Is not a command to put out the IDD - we have no way of getting those commands.
What it says is: a pair of front hazcam images to document the position of IDD.
As for the rest, this is how I would read it.
QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 31 2006, 03:33 AM)
924 p2090.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 pancam_cal_targ_L247R27
- Shutter PANCAM on the desired target (I think it is VC) with all color spectrum.
Pancam image of the calibration target - this happens on every sol.
QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 31 2006, 03:33 AM)
924 p2371.08 0 0 0 0 0 0 pancam_photom_east_L247R27
- Shutter PANCAM on the photom???(maybe on BC) East with all color spectrum.
Pancam photometry observations pointing east.
QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 31 2006, 03:33 AM)
924 p2906.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 mi_open_minloss2_LUT3_critical_DNTH2000
[*]Many times, Not yet understand it. Maybe it is related to the variation of voltage or ampere?
- Many times, Not yet understand it. Maybe it is related to the variation of voltage or ampere?
- Many times, Not yet understand it. Maybe it is related to the variation of voltage or ampere?
- Many times, Not yet understand it. Maybe it is related to the variation of voltage or ampere?
[*]Many times, Not yet understand it. Maybe it is related to the variation of voltage or ampere?
All these are all microscopic imager (mi) observations.
'open' refers to the dust cover (which is tinted so that a (kind of) colour image can be obtained) I'm not sure if 'closed' is used anymore, there may be too much dust on the cover by now.
'minloss2/3', 'min3' - I suspect (guess) refer to the compresson level used.
'LUT3' - don't know - I would assume that LUT stands for Look Up Table but I could be wrong.
'critical', 'veryhigh', 'high', 'medium' - probably refers to the downlink priority.
James
Holy s___ ! The first two MI images zero in on what is clearly a conchoidally fractured pebble ! The first unmistakeable such example I recall seeing. If one found such a pebble at a paleolithic habitation on earth, there would be no difficulty in describing it as a "core", that is, a pebble from which sharp flints are struck! I am of course not suggesting that this was produced by "intelligent" manipulation, but it is certainly a new type of specimen -- perhaps the result of the impact ??!? And could this be a "chip off the old block" of a rock like Hawking/Bradley? We've got to get a closer look at the latter . . .
Upon further consideration, the conchoidally fractured pebble is probably far smaller than what we are accustomed to thinking of as a "chipped" rock -- but still, we see some new forces at work on the surface of Mars!!!
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