To answer Ustrax's querries from the other thread, I think we can now see more of the south west rim of Endeavour and Iazu. In this image I've lined up the views from 1987 pancam (colour on bottom, from Astro in this post) and 2136 navcam (top, from Ant's navcam mosiac):
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The leftmost (Endeavour north rim) and middle (far rim) features look similar. But it looks like we can see more stuff on the right, which is Endeavour south rim and Iazu. The view we had a few sols ago (2133) of Iazu was still partly obscured by dunes, so it makes sense that we can see more now.

I can't see Bopolu in the navcams, though it could be there and buried in the jpeg noise...

OT - but relevant to the above...
The spot Oppy's at now is a slight rise compared to the surrounding region, but over the next 5kms or so there's another 45metres of rise before the drop off towards Endeavour. Much better views to come - we'll get the HOAV yet! Are you listening Stu

But first, there's some fun to be had here at Concepción.

Am I misreading the map??? To me it looks more or less level as we continue south, then gently downhill all the way once the predicted path turns east. Even then the gradient will be almost imperceptible and Endeavour and Iazu will remain long skinny horizon features. Of course it will be great to have them constantly in sight at last, but anyone hoping for a sweeping grandstand perspective will I think have to wait much longer - until arrival at Endeavour.

Looking to the map again, what I see is that we are currently at level "-1370" and the highest point is at "-1325" before dropping down to "-1430" near Mini-Endurance.

OK - I think that blurry number is 1395, not 1325. I think the contours are at 5m intervals decreasing monotonically along the route. That was my first impression and on taking another careful look I come to the same conclusion. If we still had to climb 45 metres I don't think we'd be seeing distant views now.

Ngunn, I was just about to say the same thing. The labels are not very clear, but the contours don't make sense any other way.

Phil

Thanks Phil. I was beginning to question my sanity. If people have been reading it the other way that would explain a lot of earlier posts concerning the view that didn't make any sense to me.

Yes, no current pancams in that direction so far, which should roughly be southwestern between 210° to 235° (or -150 to -125 in the PDTInterface) for any signs of Bopulu from the location of Concepción (as measured on your maps).

I'm also on the lookout for an isolated hill almost directly south (actually the end of a promontory). My impression is it's not yet visible as we have had recent pancams which I think cover that direction.

I've done a cross-section plot of the elevations along our actual route between Eagle and Concepción, and from there to Endeavour, to the end of the proposed route originally posted here. This corrects the blurry number 1325 to 1395. Vertical scale 1 m/px, horizontal scale 24 m/px:
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Lots of approximations here: Distances are in as-the-crow-flies segments, rather than odometer distances. The proposed map in the abstract contains an error, as pointed out above. The horizontal resolution of the MRO elevation data probably means we can't take the precise topography too seriously. Curvature of the surface of Mars ignored.

Still, it gives us an idea of when we might get a HOAV. It looks to me like most of the roughly level plain just west of Endeavour won't be visible until roughly halfway between Concepción and mini Endurance. Curvature works against us, but the 1.8 1.55 m height of pancam works for us.

Remember that the vertical scale is exagerated 24 times here! This is still Meridiani, after all. So any "HOAV" we get will likely be dramatic only thanks to the wonder of Phil-o-vision.

You're welcome!

Phil

"Curvature works against us".
On flat ground, horizon on Earth is at 8 kms (I guess at human eyes). Do you know the figure for Mars?

Where would the elevation of the rim peaks to south of the proposed arrival point at Endeavour fall on that plot?

At the pancam height of 1.55 m, the horizon on Mars is 3.2 km away. Another way to look at is is that in 5 km (most of the way to mini Endurance), the ground will drop by 3.7 m due to curvature. It drops 15 m after 10 km distance.

It looks like we can't resolve those rim peaks on the contour map. But the fact that we could see them since Victoria means they're higher than our current elevation, probably by a fair bit. (Perhaps any more discussion should go to the other thread...)

Me too. Could this be it? This is looking SSW-ish, but I'm not sure if the azimuth is exactly right:
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So much to see in these latest navcams. Here's an example of a definite dark feature on the horizon, in front of (part of??) Iazu Crater (lighter band above horizon):
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I think this is what you were refering to recently, Ustrax? My kingdom for a pancam view...

There are new pancams now, but only downsampled EDRs and nothing obvious.

Center of the image ~213°: https://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...66P2277L1M1.JPG

~225°: https://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...66P2277L1M1.JPG

~238°: https://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...66P2277L1M1.JPG

Also for that isolated hill southward.

Comment and query copied from the other thread:

I note that the nearest Endeavour 'rim' hills actually rise from some way down inside the hole so we won't see their feet till we're almost there. In the Endeavour Crater thread there was a very nice HRSC 3D view of Endeavour which somebody annotated with elevations. I wanted to look at that again but the HRSC links no longer work for me. Can anybody help with that?

Exactly Fred! Thanks. Looks like a real feature but I am having some hard time figuring out what it may be comparing with satellite imagery...
This is definitely my kind of thread...bring those pancams and let us find some abysses and stuff!

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...66P2368L7M1.JPG

No doubt at all about which is rear or far rim...
Edit: And, at least for me, this is already a HOAV!

You want a "Distant Vista"???!!

Click to view attachment

Punch me more...I love it!!!

I knew there had to be a significant up-side to chronic insomnia!!! Beauty & great scientific treasures now in sight, and we few are among the first to ever see such a scene on this world. In the next hours, possibly millions of others will join us.

... and if you stretch the horizon until it begs for mercy you can see just how hilly it is...

Click to view attachment

Or (over here) staying in bed long enough.

Thanks for those first mosaics Stu. A great moment - we are truly blessed.

Are we still happy with these identifications?
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...st&id=15887

Is that big dark peak right of centre (of Endeavour) really on the far rim, and if so what's that beyond it?

Takes me back to Spirit's first winter and watching Gusev crater's walls slowly appear as the dust levels dropped.

Amazingly Oppy is only about 16% closer to the big hills on the near side than it was back in Duck Bay! Once they finish heading south and start moving due east the view should improve very quickly. At mini Endurance the distance between Oppy and the big near side hills will be almost exactly half of what it was during autumn 2006.

Yes, I'm still happy with that.

I think you might be confused as to which peak is which. (I'm working on the pan and a feature identification plot). 'Cook' the big hill in the middle of the far rim from our POV is the peak on the far left of the images posted, nothing can be seen beyond it. In the middle, is part of the near rim where we are headed with Izau behind it.

James

Indeed! Thanks. I can't wait to see the full picture you're working on.

A frame showing the centre of Concepcion is missing a colour filter or something, leaving it nastily discoloured. I won't claim to speak for him of course, but I would guess that what he posted is the finished project. (any further to the right and it gets pretty terrible)

Hi all

It seems all I can say when posting here is "brilliant views"
I remember when Columbia Hills was about the same size as Endeavour is now on the horizon and how keen I (we ) were to get there.
Now I've never been so torn between seeing whats at our feet and everything that's up ahead.
Either way everyday from now is going to be brilliant views.

Thanks again to all for the stuff on this website.
Roy F

What's kind of cool is that these images of the horizon were taken 16 hrs ago. Seriously - just 16 hrs ago.

...and I made my pan at 7am, so they were just 8 hours old then?!?! That's fantastic!

(And ESA still hasn't released those 'crescent Mars' images taken by Rosetta years ago. Just saying.)

(at least some cameras ESA flies near Mars have a rapid turnaround: (*cough*) http://webservices.esa.int/blog/post/6/958)

Here are the horizon features plotted alongside another 'inverse-polar' map from this position.

Click to view attachment

I've drawn guide lines from the peaks to appropriate positions on the map in yellow and orange lines highlight the visible extent of Izau (I'm still thinking about identification of peaks)

James

The great thing about this is that the view is just going to get better all the time. Apart from the possibility of losing it very briefly behind local drifts in the next one or two km, we'll always have it, and it will get closer and the middle distance will open up more all the time. Exploration at its greatest, as some guy once said.

Phil

That's excellent, thanks James! Now we can clearly see that the very nearest rim hills (maybe in fact a slumped portion of the original rim?) are still entirely out of sight below the level surface we are looking across. I thought that might be the case from my attempts to decipher the spot heights on the map, but I'm pretty wary of those now. Seeing is believing.

EDIT: Why the interest in those invisible hiils? I think that's the location of some curious shoreline-like landforms we discussed a while ago and possibly a future destination.

Fantastic views! Thanks everyone for putting together these mosaics.

I've ID'ed Ustrax's dark feature - see the white line I added to James' superb inverse polar. It looks like it's a "head" at the closest point of the plateau around Iazu. Interesting that we're now seeing that that plateau is almost as high as the rim of Iazu.

Also, it's cool that we're really starting to see features on the features now, at least on the Endeavour rim. I've made a very tentative ID of a crater on the far rim of Endeavour (white circles).

As others have said, the view will get better and better. But on top of improved sight lines, as we head into winter the transparency should improve as well, so we should see more features on these features too.

Edit: I guess I was so excited I forgot to add my pic! Here it is:
Click to view attachment

From the 'vistas' point of view the proposed route is perfect. The next short trek SW and S should open up the distant horizon in those directions also before we turn E.

Like many previous posts I am just in awe of both the views we are beginning to experience and the expertise of those UMSF members who take the time and trouble to allow us to see these vistas in such a quick, easy and beautiful manner. A big thank you to you all.

I am trying to keep my excitement down to bearable levels (I have already learnt how tiring the emotional rollercoaster highs and lows associated with these two rovers can be!) so i'll simply ask these two questions;

1 - Are the current power levels on Opportunity any cause for concern re reaching Endeavour? (I just have this nightmare of us running out of juice 5 metres from the rim!)

2 - From the photos above it appears that whilst Endeavour is the larger crater and is our target, i think it would be fair to say it looks as though Lazu has an amazing rim. Would there be anything to be gained from trying to get there as well? (I do appreciate it is a long way away but is there anything to suggest it is significantly different from endeavour?)

Finally, I agree with Teshiner, we are definitely in HOAV area! However, I think that bar might be raised in the upcoming months...

Neil

Opportunity still has a much longer way to go than Spirit did.

While Spirit has had a much rougher trek, Opportunity has been the long distance runner. Here is an inset showing the distance covered by Spirit from Bonneville crater to the Columbia Hills. I estimated the scale based on 2.5 km from Bonneville to the Hills compared with a little over 4.5 km from Victoria to Concepcion.

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1. Power should be no problem, barring another killer dust storm. The biggest problem in my opinion would be mechanical or electrical failures because of age. (Hopefully the rover is now too smart to get stuck in the sand.)

2. Ask again in two years.

Neil, Squyres was asked about Oppy's power levels at the recent briefing and he said they weren't a concern.

Here's a comparison between the view at sol 1987 (from Astro's mosaic) with the 2140 view (from James' mosaic). Both at 3x vertical stretch. Stunning improvement indeed for Endeavour west rim/Iazu. And significant perspective change - note white line connecting the west rim peaks. Changes within Iazu as well due to near/far rim perspective change, as I remarked earlier when I posted my long baseline anaglyph.
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Hi Centsworth_II

I did realize that Oppy is further from Endeavour than Spirit was at Bonneville and thank you for the comparison map all maps are always welcome especially maps with helpful inserts.

Roy F

Cool. Spirit needed only 68 Sols from Bonneville to the Hills (Sol 86 to 154). I estimate the route to endeavour from conception as 4,5 times the route from Bonneville to the Hills (11.25 km? a little short I think) , that means we only need 306 sols to get there :-) But that's of course a minimum guess, maybe we see some interesting stuff on the road ...

Below the minimum, I would say.
Check the route from e.g. VC up to here and that would give you a better km/month figure.

Time and again we've played the X metres in Y sols means Z progress game.

It never works

Ever.

The old saying "You can have it done fast, or you can have it done right" seems applicable here.

Feels like the road to Endurance again, which is cool

Stretchy horizon comparison - animation.
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