Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: The western route
Unmanned Spaceflight.com > Mars & Missions > Past and Future > MER > Opportunity
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
nprev
Correct; was making a bad UMSF-related joke, sorry!

What I meant was that perhaps the additional weathering on the left side of BI (from this perspective) was caused by the meteorite's passage through the atmosphere during impact rather then long-term exposure to Martian surface winds.

It's difficult to be completely sure, though surface wind erosion over a long period of time does seem more plausible. A look at the underside of the rock would be revealing, but of course it's far too massive for Oppy to move by any means. Just a minor mystery that might not be decisively solved for a few hundred years... smile.gif
marsophile
QUOTE (nprev @ Sep 7 2009, 10:29 PM) *
...but of course it's far too massive for Oppy to move by any means.


The rover might possibly be able to rotate it in place (a yawing movement) by pushing on one side. Not sure if that would reveal anything additional.
ElkGroveDan
QUOTE (marsophile @ Sep 8 2009, 07:42 AM) *
The rover might possibly be able to rotate it in place (a yawing movement) by pushing on one side.

Not a chance.
djellison
Agreed - this thing is several hundred KG, more than half a ton, possibly more like 3/4s of a ton or more - there is nothing the rover could do to it.
eoincampbell
Could Heat Shield and Block Island have been part of the same rock?
Will the instrument integration on the other side of BI require the same amount of time?

Eoin
djellison
QUOTE (eoincampbell @ Sep 8 2009, 05:08 PM) *
Could Heat Shield and Block Island have been part of the same rock?


They're not rocks. They're metallic meteorites, that show all the evidence of being 'complete' - with entry heating features on all sides.
marsophile
Is there any hope of inferring anything about the age of Block Island from the isotopic ratios as measured by the APXS?
serpens
QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 8 2009, 04:45 PM) *
They're not rocks. They're metallic meteorites, that show all the evidence of being 'complete' - with entry heating features on all sides.


Well... they are rocks.
http://www.astronomynotes.com/glossary/glossm.htm smile.gif
centsworth_II
"It's a rock!"
"It's not a rock!"

Usually this discussion involves reference to fossilized skulls or other bones. laugh.gif
Stu
More progress around Block Island...

Click to view attachment
Stu
... and in colour....

Click to view attachment
Juramike
QUOTE (Stu @ Sep 9 2009, 08:31 AM) *
More progress around Block Island...


Nice view of the drift.
fredk
...and in pancam 3D. We can now see most of the "backside" of BI. Clearly the smooth side.
Click to view attachment
mhoward
Simulated view of Opportunity at Block Island, for a sense of scale. This is an MMB screenshot, slightly touched up using Pixelmator.

ElkGroveDan
QUOTE (fredk @ Sep 9 2009, 06:23 AM) *
...and in pancam 3D. We can now see most of the "backside" of BI.


Darn. No bolts.
Astro0
mhoward: Simulated view of Opportunity at Block Island, for a sense of scale.

So my guess for scale might not have been too far off. Cool cool.gif
Click to view attachment

EDIT: With Stu's latest images of BI, I've updated the animation in a later post.
Stu
Latest postcards from Oppy's "Tour of Block Island"...

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Fascinating difference between one side and t'other... looks like something blasted the poor thing with a shotgun...
Ant103
Hi smile.gif

My owns versions of BI views from different sols.

Sol 1996 :

Color anaglyph


Sol 2000 :

Sol 2001 :



I think it's possible to make a 3D model of BI. I will try that.
fredk
Beautiful views, thanks Stu! The last view clearly shows a colour difference between the "farside" (smoother and dustier) and the "nearside" (the side we met first, rougher and more metallic). That seems to contradict the idea that windblown sand has shaped the surface - less dust on the nearside presumably means that's the windward side. But the windward side is not the smooth side.

Perhaps I'm wrong about expecting the windward side to be smoothed by the sand. Or perhaps the wind directions have changed (actually we know they do because the windstreaks out of Victoria change with the seasons). Or perhaps the rough/smooth areas were set at entry.

I'm surprized at the quick move around the farside. I'd guess a decision will be made soon about whether to study the farside in more detail or to continue driving...
fredk
And more beautiful views, Ant! Just one little thing - I have to hold my red/green glasses backwards to get the 3D effect correctly...
MarkG
As far as the shape and surface textures of Block Island goes, it is quite possible that the meteorite has tumbled one or more times over the aeons in erosion/burial cycles (remember the pedestal discussion). There is no particular reason (besides trusting in a couple billion years of inertia) that the orientation of BI has been unchanged.
Ant103
QUOTE (fredk @ Sep 10 2009, 04:14 PM) *
And more beautiful views, Ant! Just one little thing - I have to hold my red/green glasses backwards to get the 3D effect correctly...


Thanks smile.gif

Okay, I've made the correction for the anaglyph (mistake between left/right).

This my take for a "Sol 2000 celebration", based on the Sol 2000 panorama :


Just a simple "Sol 2000" 3D incrustation in the direction of the future drives smile.gif.
eoincampbell
What's the theory behind the cavity? Could the entry forces have separated that piece to oblivion, or is it sitting in fragments on Meridiani ?
Juramike
Here are two MI images of Vail Beach, the gravelly area in front of Block Island, taken way back on Sol 1974:
http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/m/...XP2956M2M1.HTML
http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/m/...XP2956M2M1.HTML

Some heavily pitted materials can be seen in the second image (Block Island fragments?)

All this begs the question: Why is Vail Beach here? Are these the result of a small long gone crater that sat well above this layer and ablated away?

Here’s a possible scenario:

Block Island meteorite smacks into sediments and forms a crater on a plain well above the current level. As the surrounding deposits and the crater ablates away, more resistant rock and pebbles and blueberries roll and concentrate into the crater bottom. Eventually the Aeolian erosion level reaches the crater bottom and the loose friable deposits ablate away, slowly lowering the concentrated pebble fragments onto the current level we observe today. The pebbles form a nice armor, and prevent dune formation directly in front of Block Island. Behind Block Island, the lower windspeed causes sand deposition. (Just Immediately behind Block Island, there is a small patch of brighter dust visible in Stu’s images.)

This would make Vail Beach the remnants of a fossil “internal mold” of a long gone crater formed when Block Island smacked into Meridiani...


(This is following a train of thought that Fran Ontanaya started here.)
Astro0
Updated animation of the circumnavigation of Block Island.
Click to view attachment

EDIT: Removed between-frames. Continuous loop.
serpens
QUOTE (MarkG @ Sep 10 2009, 04:47 PM) *
it is quite possible that the meteorite has tumbled one or more times over the aeons in erosion/burial cycles (remember the pedestal discussion).


Since the erosional force would have been horizontal rather than primarily vertical as in Earthly pedestal rocks I would think that BI is in the same orientation as immediately after the impact. As the pedestal(s) eroded BI would probably have lowered with a rocking motion once erosion exposed it and created the pedestal effect.
dvandorn
Mike, you're describing a lag deposit, of which we've seen quite a few examples on Mars (most significantly in the blueberry paving in the flatlands of Meridiani). When you have such a friable surface, these sulfate-rich rocks being very soft and crumbly, the stuff deflates pretty quickly over geologic time, and the surfaces achieve a dynamic stability when lag deposits become thick enough to armor the underlying surface.

And serpens, I'll note that BI seems to be sitting on one side of a ripple-like rise, tilted up and lifted off the ground on the far side of the ripple crest. Looks exactly as you describe -- a rock in the process of doing a gentle, eons-long rocking descent as the surface erodes out from under it.

In terms of Vail Beach itself, I can well imagine that the impact event could have crumbled off "flakes" (small pebbles) of a superheated meteor, which would end up embedded close to the main embedded meteor. Also, the thing would have been quite stressed and shatter-damaged (as much as a piece of nickel-iron can be shatter-damaged) from the time it created its crater through to the present day. I can well imagine subsequent weathering causing pebbles to break off.

Finally (here's the real wildcard), it *is* possible that Meridiani was at one time a polar environment, and BI impacted not into a rocky surface but into layers of water and dry ice. It was then subsequently dropped onto the surface after the polar ices had all sublimated away. That's one excellent way of explaining how a meteor can be deposited, as if by a gentle hand, onto the Martian surface (as we've seen in several places).

-the other Doug
fredk
From the latest update:
QUOTE
The plan is to complete the circumnavigation of the meteorite before departing this location.

Sounds like we may be hitting the road soon... wheel.gif
Tesheiner
Today's plan (sol 2002) is move to the sixth (and last?) position in the circumnavigation and take some "drive-direction" pancams. The latter is an indication that we will be leaving the area quite soon. Tomorrow or Sunday, maybe?
Stu
QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 11 2009, 02:13 AM) *
-- a rock in the process of doing a gentle, eons-long rocking descent as the surface erodes out from under it.


Now that's poetry... absolutely beautiful, thank you.
MarsIsImportant
QUOTE (Juramike @ Sep 10 2009, 12:39 PM) *
Here are two MI images of Vail Beach, the gravelly area in front of Block Island, taken way back on Sol 1974:
http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/m/...XP2956M2M1.HTML
http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/m/...XP2956M2M1.HTML

Some heavily pitted materials can be seen in the second image (Block Island fragments?)

All this begs the question: Why is Vail Beach here? Are these the result of a small long gone crater that sat well above this layer and ablated away?

Here’s a possible scenario:

Block Island meteorite smacks into sediments and forms a crater on a plain well above the current level. As the surrounding deposits and the crater ablates away, more resistant rock and pebbles and blueberries roll and concentrate into the crater bottom. Eventually the Aeolian erosion level reaches the crater bottom and the loose friable deposits ablate away, slowly lowering the concentrated pebble fragments onto the current level we observe today. The pebbles form a nice armor, and prevent dune formation directly in front of Block Island. Behind Block Island, the lower windspeed causes sand deposition. (Just Immediately behind Block Island, there is a small patch of brighter dust visible in Stu’s images.)

This would make Vail Beach the remnants of a fossil “internal mold” of a long gone crater formed when Block Island smacked into Meridiani...


(This is following a train of thought that Fran Ontanaya started here.)

I see one major problem with this line of thought. Let's take a look at the bigger picture. Why are all the iron meteorites exactly on the surface, not just this one?

If there was surface excavation along with ablation through wind erosion, then the chances that these would all be on the surface would be next to zero. At least some of these big meteorites should be at least partially embedded into the ground.

But if the former surface that is now gone used to be ice, then everything makes sense. The meteorites would eventually all sink down to the same level were there was no more sublimating ice. Everything would appear to be gently laid down on top of the surface - because basically it was.

Do we have any examples of iron meteorites at Meridiani embedded into the ground where only part of it can be seen?
serpens
Every crater has a probable buried meteorite - or the fragments thereof.
antoniseb
QUOTE (MarsIsImportant @ Sep 11 2009, 01:36 AM) *
if the former surface that is now gone used to be ice, then everything makes sense. The meteorites would eventually all sink down to the same level were there was no more sublimating ice. Everything would appear to be gently laid down on top of the surface - because basically it was.


If the pale colored bedrock is salts deposited by a drying salt lake/sea, I wonder how long a time there might have been when the conditions were right for BI (and the others) to land, but not get covered in salt themselves.

Juramike
QUOTE (MarsIsImportant @ Sep 11 2009, 02:36 AM) *
If there was surface excavation along with ablation through wind erosion, then the chances that these would all be on the surface would be next to zero. At least some of these big meteorites should be at least partially embedded into the ground.


This is probably giving us an idea of rate of "resistant" impacts vs. ablation erosion rate.

Imagine a surface dotted with craters of varying depth. Some containing resistant meteorites.

If the cratering rate (of resistant impactors) was really high, and the erosion rate really high: then we should see exposed meteorites all over the place. There would be a few still partially buried, but those would get completely exposed in the blink of an eye. (Once exposed, they remain exposed. The time it would take to exhume would be the time it took for the surrounding sediments to be removed along the Z coordinate of the embedded meteorite.)

If the cratering rate (of resistant impactors) was really low, and the erosion rate really high: then we should see a few exposed meteorites lying around completely exhumed, only a few would be buried (but not for long).

If the cratering rate was high, and the erosion rate really low: then we would see only a few popping out of the surface. Most would still be buried (and they'd stay that way for a while)

If the cratering rate was low and the erosion rate low, then the few resistant impactors would be buried.

We've got an n=3 of exposed meteorites that we've seen in our journeys. Is this a "few" or "a lot" or "all over the place"?
The unknowns are still the resistant meteorite cratering rate and average emplacement depths (most of the meteorites are within a few orders of magnitude in size), the absolute time-averaged erosion rate, the absolute age of the current surface, and the absolute age of the highest layer in the historical stack.

At least we can safely say that the resistant-impactor cratering rate is significantly above "never".
ilbasso
QUOTE (Juramike @ Sep 11 2009, 10:19 AM) *
...We've got an n=3 of exposed meteorites that we've seen in our journeys. Is this a "few" or "a lot" or "all over the place"?...


What is interesting to me is that we have seen three relatively good-sized, exposed meteorites in a relatively small area. Combining the length of Spirit's and Opportunity's travels, if you walked for 20 miles on Earth, would you expect to encounter three meteorites of that size lying around on the surface? Or even would you expect that there were three meteorites of that size buried in the ground where you were walking? I don't have any answers, I just think that for our day-to-day travels on Earth, that would seem to me like "a lot" of meteorites to encounter.
stewjack
QUOTE (ilbasso @ Sep 11 2009, 10:59 AM) *
... that would seem to me like "a lot" of meteorites to encounter.

As an amateur space enthusiast that sounds like a good starting point to me.

Can we go any further?


centsworth_II
QUOTE (MarsIsImportant @ Sep 11 2009, 03:36 AM) *
.... Why are all the iron meteorites exactly on the surface, not just this one?

As long as there has not been net deposition since the meteors' appearance on the surface they would remain on the surface. It does not matter if they were originally buried in soil which was removed or in ice which melted.
centsworth_II
QUOTE (ilbasso @ Sep 11 2009, 11:59 AM) *
...that would seem to me like "a lot" of meteorites to encounter.

Look at how many craters there are! I imagine a lot more meteors reach the surface of Mars than Earth due to the thin atmosphere. Also, we hear a lot about Near Earth Objects threatening Earth impact, but I wonder how the number of Near Mars Objects compares.
john_s
The biggest difference from Earth is just the surface age. The Meridiani plains may erode by a meter or less in hundreds of millions of years, so meteorites (especially erosion-resistant iron ones) have much more time to accumulate than on Earth, where it would be rare to find a meteorite that's been lying around for more than a few tens of thousands of years. So you might expect 10,000 times as many meteorites on Mars as on the Earth even if atmospheric entry survival and impact rates were identical.

If the rovers have surveyed about a square kilometer for meteorites (2 rovers x 10 km x a 50 meter wide strip along the track, say), then we have 4 meteorites per square kilometer on an average Martian surface. So on Earth you might then expect a meteorite every 2,500 square kilometers, an area 50 km or 30 miles on a side. That sounds about right...

John
Stu
Latest postcard home from Oppy as she continues her 2009 "Tour of Block Island"...

Click to view attachment

And there are some new 3D views up on my Twitpic gallery...

http://twitpic.com/photos/mars_stu

Stu
Opportunity's 2009 Tour of Block Island...

http://twitpic.com/hhfdi

smile.gif
Astro0
One good turn deserves another....animation that is! cool.gif
Click to view attachment

Here you go Alan. Two seconds per frame. Hope that helps.
Click to view attachment
alan
QUOTE (Astro0 @ Sep 12 2009, 05:34 PM) *
One good turn deserves another....animation that is! cool.gif

Could you slow the animation down? its difficult for my eyes to keep up with.

Edit: thanks astro0 smile.gif
JayB
http://twitter.com/MarsRovers/statuses/3943115122

"Both rovers are operating w/ 1 stuck wheel."

something i missed? I know oppy's rf has been touchy but stuck???

Juramike
MI mosaic of Vail Beach assembled from 4 of the images taken on Sol 1974.
(Lotsa fun warping to match perspective and playing with masks.)

Click to view attachment

The non-cropped full resolution version is available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31678681@N07/3913837681/

-Mike
Stu
QUOTE (Astro0 @ Sep 12 2009, 11:34 PM) *
One good turn deserves another....


Verrrry nice, thanks! smile.gif
Tesheiner
QUOTE (JayB @ Sep 13 2009, 05:33 AM) *
http://twitter.com/MarsRovers/statuses/3943115122

"Both rovers are operating w/ 1 stuck wheel."

something i missed? I know oppy's rf has been touchy but stuck???

The RF steering actuator is stuck since a looong time ago.
serpens
QUOTE (stewjack @ Sep 11 2009, 06:49 PM) *
As an amateur space enthusiast that sounds like a good starting point to me.

Can we go any further?

Well the atacama is a comparatively prolific source of meteorites. Arid desert like meridiani with minimal erosion
Juramike
Sol1974 Vail Beach MI Mosaic localized. It is just in front of Block Island.

Visible in Sol1973 Pancam image (numbered rocks correlate - in the MI mosaic down is towards Block Island):
Click to view attachment

And another shot on Sol 2003, just before leaving:
Click to view attachment

-Mike

Shaka
No MI's of the blueberries on BI? .....hmm
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.