To fix my position on the beacon (lest I plunge down into VC in despair), I'm sending a color-enhanced and otherwise improved version of my previous gridded stereograph. Originals map-projected jpegs, north up.

Red = highest area ('above grid')
Uncolored =~ 'grid level'
Green = lowest ('below grid' - crater interior excluded)
Red lines crossing = my vote in the beacon poll

As of today the vote so far for where beacon rock is this: 6 for far Rim, 10 for near Rim and 2 that can't make up their minds? If I made a mistake or missed a vote. Please correct me

Here are the votes:

Far Rim

1. ElkGroveDan
2. prometheus
3. climber
4. MahFL
5. Joffan
6. befgadder

Near Rim

1. dilo
2. sranderson
3. djellison
4. Tesheiner
5. ustrax
6. Chris
7. RNeuhaus
8. dvandorn
9. imipak
10. Shaka

And the 2 who can't make up their mind yet?

1. lyford
2. centsworth II

I still think Beacon Rock is ustrax shining a light at us

Indeed, that's where the sightlines generated by Tesh et al. and, last but not least, JPL cross the near rim. Pity there's nothing obvious announcing its presence there, but what do we really need? A fractured slab of surface evaporite, undermined by erosion at the edge, tilts down into VC, raising its white northerly edge into view from our position. Coincidentally, it comprises the highest point VC reveals to us.
Elementary, my dear Watson!

Ah - it's just about the Beacon...put me down as don't know then. I thought this was about the feature below it - what looks like the near side slope.

Doug

No it is not!
But may be the shovel I left there...
And I was thinking it stayed inside Ultreya when all that sand came over...
My head's no longer the same...

oDoug:

Ha! Guess who played 'Lander' on a PDP-11!

Bob Shaw

I didn't make an explicit vote but an earlier post put me firmly in the near rim camp and I'm still there.

Bobby,

You missed me out of the "Far Rim" list.

Stu

You missed me out of the near rim vote.

Phil

Forget the voting - I think Phil and Tim Parker should arm wrestle for it

Doug

Yes not as big as I first thought too, even though we see probably only a part of a bigger cliff.

I calculated it too with a little larger values to both near and far rim (4 x 6 px on sol 821 and 1200/1800 meters) and get 1,4 x 2,0 meters and 2,0 x 3,1 meters. Btw. the exact value for the Pancam IFOV is 16,8 degrees.

We had a discussion already about this issue, let me find it...
Actually, the available documentation has at least three different values for the fov.

Edited: Found it, here and just below it.

Edited again: Doug, this could be another question for JB.

Edited for the third time! Should we start another pool about the pancam fov?

Is this "promontory" referred to our beacon? If so, they seem to think it's on the Far Rim..?

link

Exactly.

Is this "promontory" referred to our beacon? If so, they seem to think it's on the Far Rim..?

Good, very good, very very Good. Did they also confirm arrival on Sol 935 ?

Oh, thanks Tes, (I fear) I missed this discussion.

This is what it says on the pds lables

Just to get off the fence, I'll go with my gut and say far rim.

Even though many of the image experts say near rim, I haven't seen a chorus of support fot Tesheiner's parallax-based "proof". I take that to mean the data is insufficient in that area.

One thing I noticed on the link to Tim Parker's analysis: On the streched version, the beacon lines up with the highest point of the rise on the near side of Victoria. So a far side beacon would need to be even higher to be seen than one not lining up with the near rim high point. (I don't buy the "looking through a keyhole" argument.) On the other hand, The beacon coinciding with the near side high point could mean that it is ON the near side high point. The force creating that raised terrain may have lifted and exposed the rock forming the beacon. But before I talk myself out of it, I'll stick with my gut -- far rim.

Oh hell. Far rim here.

Nico

I started out on the far rim, waffled back and forth a few times, and now I'll have to stay with FAR rim.

--Bill

The fence is quite painfull - but I'm staying right on it.

Doug

Those 15.8412º are exactly 0.27mrad (ifov) x 1024; interesting.

For most of the measurements usually done, the difference on the results using either 15.8º, 16.0º, or 16.8º is unsignificant. But if we want to make accurate parallax-derived measurements from >1km of VC, such a difference could mean "locate a feature on the wrong rim".

PS: No, I'm not changing to the other side of the fence.

Ohohoh...What a match this will be...

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustrax3/cup.jpg

Simply GREAT!

Ohohoh...What a match this will be...

Ah ah ah.
Only the sol number is wrong (I'm not again gona say 935).
Soccer World Cup final will be on Oppy Sol 874 (july 9th)

... so repeat with me: 9 6 0.

Genius ustrax, just genius...!

No, Ustrax got it *exactly* correct!

9 0 0

Bob Shaw

As a another soccer fan, Ustrax's post is spectacular. Ahh, the beacon is where stay the TV teams filming the soccer game.

Changing the theme. let us suppose that the beacon is a very strange VC feature. That Meridiani planum has NO ONE A BIG BOULDER! This strikes to my the curiosity to understand it is why it is so peculiar case of VC. The Meridiani Planum is truly uniform and very plane land. At this distance, the beacon, with its high abedo, it leads me to think it is a stone of about color as the outcrops. I know the colours from PANCAM is of white and black and I have to wait until less than 100 meters which PANCAM can match a true color. Isn't it?

Then, what is the explanation of the beacon. Then the visit to VC would be very interesting. Worth decision. Keep truking truking as Shasha is saying!!!

Rodolfo

centsworth_II said:

Even though many of the image experts say near rim, I haven't seen a chorus of support fot Tesheiner's parallax-based "proof". I take that to mean the data is insufficient in that area.

I completely agree with Tesheiner's analysis.

Phil

PS There's no way I'm arm-wrestling Tim! He would break me in half... but he is wrong this time! (Sorry, Tim)

Extremely OT but I feel I must point out that it is in fact possible to break one's arm wrestling like this. To anyone reading this: never arm wrestle, even if you're fairly muscular. The torsional stresses are completely unlike anything a person will encounter in other physical activity (weight lifting, for example).

We now return you to your scheduled programme...

Following on from Ustrax's vision...

The Winners...!

...And the NR supporters don't swallow it easily...

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustrax3/nru.jpg

And JPL's team celebrate Far rim team victory(a)

Click to view attachment

Back on arguments of the shape of the beacon. What do You think of this ?
Click to view attachment
Sorry, it's on excel, but it's the only way I can do it today

Wow! Without a doubt? Is the case closed?

What is closed is that the decision is already taken but not the final confirmation!

Rodolfo

[quote name='Tesheiner' date='May 18 2006, 05:33 PM' post='54742']
... so repeat with me: 9 6 0.

Dear Tesheiner,
As it's now evident that YOU decide which route Oppy will go , 960 can be right ONLY if the pool move to "arrival date at the Beacon". Since it's on the FAR rim of VC, you're correct : we'll need 25 more sols. Nevertheless, as UMSF'ers mates I want to propose an arrangement between us : you decide the route, I decide the arrival date, OK ?

Fanciful view of what Beacon might look like...

Beacon Dawn

OH MY

What did I start with this far rim/near rim Vote???

Let the Better Team win

As of today we are just about even on the Far Rim/Near Rim Vote. In Soccer or Football (Not American Football). How many does it take to field a team???

Here are the votes:

Far Rim

1. ElkGroveDan
2. prometheus
3. climber
4. MahFL
5. Joffan
6. bergadder
7. Stu
8. Nix
9. Bill Harris
10. centsworth II
11. alan

Near Rim

1. dilo
2. sranderson
3. helvick
4. Tesheiner
5. ustrax
6. Chris
7. RNeuhaus
8. dvandorn
9. imipak
10. Shaka
11. Phil Stooke
12. jamescanvin

And the 2 who can't make up their mind yet?

1. lyford
2. djellison

And how is Bob Shaw going to Vote. He might be the tiebreaker???

Far rim. I find it easeir to believe that there is one point on the far rim high enough to be seen over the near rim than that there is one, and only one, outcrop on the near side.

That is interesting, being in the PDS headers...

I still beleve the 16.0 figure in Bell et al. 2003 is accurate though. I have made two 360 degree panoramas and in both cases I optimised for the fov: 15.9687 and 16.0816. A change to 15.84 would lead to ~3 degrees difference over 360 degrees, ~7 pixels per image, seriously messing with the stitch quality. 16.8 would be much worse of course.

Still, a good question for Jim Bell, get this cleared up once and for all.

Back on topic, I've been sitting on the fence across Victoria for too long...

I'm going to join the nearside team.

James

Welcome to our team!

Now it is the turn for the two undecided: djellison and lyford. At this distance, the picture is still unclear but the decision is made up not only of picture quality but by the use of geomerty, trigonometry, abedos, color, optics' law, eolian factor, impact direction, and whatever you find another ways to deduct it.

Rodolfo

This is what I was thinking as well in my earlier post.... As can't really make out the feature in a meaningful way at all. But for the sake of sport, (and to up the pressure on Doug) , I would have to say I was swayed by marswiggle and his pretty pictures.
So which team is that? Nearside, right?

PS - we ARE talking about the "beacon" above the slope, not the other lighter apparition to the left?

I agree James. There are differences in overlap from pan to pan due tilt of the rover,... I get about the same values you mention. Fixing the FOV @ 15.84 doesn't work for me either.

Nico

[quote name='Bobby' date='May 19 2006, 01:36 AM' post='54823']
OH MY

What did I start with this far rim/near rim Vote???

Let the Better Team win

As of today we are just about even on the Far Rim/Near Rim Vote. In Soccer or Football (Not American Football). How many does it take to field a team???

Eleven my dear. Vote is over! To be honest, on the Soccer's world cup they autorize 23 names... but only 11 on the field. We'll have so talk together within teams and select our best 11's...more fights to come Bobby

Tweeeeeeet! "Choice disallowed for extreme waffling!"

Now all chant together: "Doug, Doug, Doug, Doug, Doug...."

Based on route map, Oppy made the long-awaited trasversal movement we need to assess what we are seeing. This crossed eyes stereogram is based on Sol 818 and 821 stretched images:
Click to view attachment
I have impression to see through a hole in the near rim, but I'm not sure. Anyway, beacon appear behind, so take me on the far rim team!

Dilo just traded himself away to the other team based on a newer view from a closer vantage point. As Opportunity continues to close the distance, players may continue to jump from one team to the other to be on the winning team. Someone (Doug?) should declare a Sol at which the team jumping must stop and so begin the true waiting to see which team wins.

Mind you, I am just a spectator here.

[quote name='mchan' date='May 19 2006, 09:15 AM' post='54866']
Someone (Doug?) should declare a Sol at which the team jumping must stop and so begin the true waiting to see which team wins.
We, FARIMers' will accept all jumpers : the more mads, the more fun, as we say in French.

Mind you, I am just a spectator here.
Which side of the rim are you sitting on to watch the game ?


[quote name='dilo' date='May 19 2006, 08:09 AM' post='54856']
Based on route map, Oppy made the long-awaited trasversal movement we need to assess what we are seeing. This crossed eyes stereogram is based on Sol 818 and 821 stretched images:

I can also see the beacon "moving". If we assume this, what will be the dark zone on the rigth of the beacon that must be on the exterior of the near rim ? I cannot find a match on the orbital picts.