Unmanned Spaceflight.com > Pool: Arrival at Victoria

ustrax

May 25 2006, 03:28 PM

QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ May 25 2006, 03:36 PM)

I have two suggestions,

a ) first image of any portion of the dunes inside Victoria or

b ) first contact with any exposed pavement along the rim (since it's clear there is none on the "slopes")

Well...I believe this was the day we celebrated the arrival at Endurance...What a great day that was!

:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...cam/2004-04-30/

Edited: First Forward-HazCam picture could be another hypothesis...This was the first one for Endurance:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...23P1201L0M1.JPG

QUOTE (alan @ May 25 2006, 04:18 PM)

mines July 29th, someone at JPL was forcasting arrival in late July

We can start filling the gaps in July...We've got 1, 7, 9, 10, 29...That will be a full party month...
And let's hope someone will have a large and deep reason for celebrations...

Oersted

May 25 2006, 04:42 PM

I'd say that first pic of part of the bottom dune is the best way to define it too. (And I'm not in the running, so that's an objective voice!)

RNeuhaus

May 25 2006, 04:59 PM

QUOTE (ilbasso @ May 24 2006, 09:58 PM)

Can't recall - did we ever precisely define what "arrival" means? Does it mean sitting on the ledge? How close to the edge? What Sol shall we use as a benchmark to define "arrival" at Endurance, so that we can use similar criteria for arrival at Victoria?

Ilbasso: Good question!

I think that the arrival date of VC means that Oppy is sitting on the edge of rim, let say, within a prudent

distance to avoid in rolling or slipping down into the bottom of the crater.

Who else will concur it?

Rodolfo

Redited: I would rather vote for sitting on the edge of rim instead of a picture of VC's bottom. Picture will come, maybe, some soles later than sitting on the edge of rim.

centsworth_II

May 25 2006, 07:17 PM

QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ May 25 2006, 12:59 PM)

I would rather vote for sitting on the edge of rim instead of a picture of VC's bottom. Picture will come, maybe, some soles later than sitting on the edge of rim.

So we use the sol Opportunity arrived at the location from which the defining picture was taken, even if the picture is posted a day or two later.

Nix

May 25 2006, 07:36 PM

sol 880 -1st day of first panorama- , 'bout time I joined in

Nico

centsworth_II

May 25 2006, 07:41 PM

QUOTE (Nix @ May 25 2006, 03:36 PM)

-1st day of first panorama-

I like the arrival date at the spot from which the first picture showing part of the bottom ripples is taken. They may spend a week or two jockying around after this time before beginning a panorama.

Tesheiner

May 25 2006, 08:19 PM

I like this idea too, but I see also a problem given the size of VC.
Victoria is not like Endurance or Eagle. On those ones (E&E), the rover could be one day seeing nothing and on the next one, after just a 20m drive, see the whole or most part of the bottom. I don't think this will be the case with Victoria; we will start with just a glimpse of some features that may be dunes at the bottom and only after much more then 20m (think about 100m) we'll realise about the real truth.
There may be some (driving) sols of uncertainty when calling an "arrival day".

... but then we can start a pool to decide if something seen on sol X or X-1 was really part of the bottom dunes or not.

Joffan

May 25 2006, 10:28 PM

I think we've got to be able to see the whole of the VC dune field. Just glimpsing a few dunes through a dip in the crater rim isn't enough to say we've arrived. The critical section should be the near edge of the dune field.

And yes, of course it's the sol that Opportunity arrives at that spot, not when the pictures are taken that's key.

centsworth_II

May 26 2006, 01:36 AM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ May 25 2006, 04:19 PM)

...with Victoria; we will start with just a glimpse of some features that may be dunes at the bottom and only after much more then 20m (think about 100m) we'll realise about the real truth.

Also, the bottom ripples may not confine themselves the a nice circular area at the base of the crater. Remember even at the much smaller Endurance, there were a few which reached up the side toward Opportunity's entry point. In fact, Opportunity made it to within a few feet of them before it got to dangerous. But I think all would agree that those high-reaching ripples were part of the overall field at the base. So even a ripple not at the bottom, but still part of the overall ripple field could be counted.

QUOTE (Joffan @ May 25 2006, 06:28 PM)

I think we've got to be able to see the whole of the VC dune field.

First glimpse will be much easier to judge, and more indicative of having arrived. Depending on the topography around the rim, it may be a long time after arrival before the entire bottom can be seen.

Aberdeenastro

May 26 2006, 07:50 AM

Rodolfo,

Do you have an update on the possible arrival date at VC based on the rate of driving over the last few sols? Oppy is not allowed to arrive at VC between 6th and 22nd of July as I'm away on holiday with no access to a computer..... Please arrange a date either side of this...

Castor

Myran

May 26 2006, 10:41 AM

I agree that seeing into the crater would define arrvial, and saying so before any of those with realy high Sol numbers starts to argue that 'arrival' should be defined as entering the crater itself! Opps, I didnt say that!

QUOTE

Written in reply to centsworth_II: I like the arrival date at the spot from which the first picture showing part of the bottom ripples is taken. They may spend a week or two jockying around after this time before beginning a panorama.

climber

May 28 2006, 09:18 PM

What about the Official arrival date that will be posted by the JPL?
Did we have such a date for Endurance?

RNeuhaus

May 30 2006, 10:50 PM

Update at sol 833

CODE

___________________________________________________
Last sol drive            833
Soles since start         75
Transversed distance    1,264 meters 57.5%
Average speed            16.9 m/sol
Remaining distance     936 meters
___________________________________________________
Outlook arrival date: 888.5 --> July 20

The outlook arrival date has extended from July 13.

It look that Oppy will mis 7 soles due to the recent sandtrap. So, the next time that Oppy starts to drive, the Sol would be marked at around 895.

]Previous Update at Sol 821

Rodolfo

jvandriel

Jun 1 2006, 09:09 AM

Opportunity stuck again.

There goes my birthday present.

Arrival at Victoria crater on the 10th of July.

jvandriel

Bobby

Jun 5 2006, 12:34 AM

Even know I didn't make a prediction in this thread to when Oppy would make it to Victoria.

Due to Oppy being stuck again and we all hope she does get out. Should we start a new pool up again called
Arrival at Victoria after Purgotory 2?

Start the Pool after Oppy gets out of her sticky situation?

ElkGroveDan

Jun 5 2006, 12:58 AM

QUOTE (Bobby @ Jun 4 2006, 04:34 PM)

Due to Oppy being stuck again and we all hope she does get out. Should we start a new pool up again called
Arrival at Victoria after Purgotory 2?

No way. If we don't spend too much time at Corner Crater, we're looking good for 902 (assuming she's out in the next couple days.)

No sirreeee....my guess took into account stuff like this (it was a gut feeling).

RNeuhaus

Jun 5 2006, 01:02 AM

QUOTE (Bobby @ Jun 4 2006, 07:34 PM)

Even know I didn't make a prediction in this thread to when Oppy would make it to Victoria.

Due to Oppy being stuck again and we all hope she does get out. Should we start a new pool up again called
Arrival at Victoria after Purgotory 2?

Start the Pool after Oppy gets out of her sticky situation?

A new round game that would go to be infinite. What will happen if Oppy get a new Purgatory 3? One no never know by sure but surely if it happens again, it would be a small and easy to be pulled out. So we are going to have many round of bets. Up to now, we are runing two round of betting: The oldest was of the LAST YEAR and it was reseted by a new round of bet a few weeks ago.

Rodolfo

Tesheiner

Jun 5 2006, 07:08 AM

Just for comparision: you make your bet on a horse race and then one of them simply falls down on the sand. Should we say, "wait a minute, let's make new bets"?

No.

djellison

Jun 5 2006, 07:43 AM

Everyone should have thought of the chances of another purgatory dune thing....that's why I said ( but it didn't really get noticed some months back ) S1k - because that seemed sensible if you included another 'get stuck' moment

Doug

climber

Jun 5 2006, 09:00 AM

I agree : arrival date and Beacon positions bets are both over.

Bob Shaw

Jun 5 2006, 11:35 AM

QUOTE (djellison @ Jun 5 2006, 08:43 AM)

Everyone should have thought of the chances of another purgatory dune thing....that's why I said ( but it didn't really get noticed some months back ) S1k - because that seemed sensible if you included another 'get stuck' moment

Doug

Doug:

Oh, I don't know - Sol 900 is still possible...

..and is S1k Sol 1,000 or Sol 1024? Sly devil, two for the price of one!

Bob Shaw

Rakhir

Jun 6 2006, 06:11 AM

QUOTE (climber @ Jun 5 2006, 11:00 AM)

I agree : arrival date and Beacon positions bets are both over.

I agree as well.
It would be unfair for those who anticipated for likely issues during this trek (sandtraps, Oppy technical glitches, Odyssey is safe mode...).
I think everyone in this forum is aware that the road to Victoria is not an easy ride.

Lets wait before all the bets become clearly unreacheable before placing new ones (I hope we will not have to wait for that).

-- Rakhir

Bobby

Jun 6 2006, 07:04 AM

Yes it was silly of me to ask for another vote or poll up for when Oppy gets to Victoria.

Please forgive me

RNeuhaus

Jun 8 2006, 02:09 AM

To remaind about the bet list.

CODE

___________________________________________________
Last sol drive            843 (today)
Soles since start         85
Transversed distance    1,265 meters 57.5%
Average speed            14.9 m/sol
Remaining distance     935 meters
___________________________________________________
Outlook arrival date: 905.8 Sol --> Aug 6  at 12 m/sol speed
Outlook arrival date: 901.4 Sol -->  Aug 2 at 16 m/sol speed

After Oppy has escaped from the Bay of Lamentation, Oppy has lost 10 soles trying to kick as hard backwards plus 3 soles of other activities. So the the outlook of arrival date has extended from 888 to 901 with the most probably speed peace of 16 meters/sol from the last sol drive update: 833.

Then, ones who has bet before than Sol 901 are ones who are targed as "out" will line up for another bet if Oppy will fall again in a "Pond of Pray". The other group with the label "maybe" are ones who must cross fingers as Oppy won't stop by Corner Crater. The ones with the label as "probably" hope that Oppy has visited Corner Crater as a short doctor visit and arrives at VC with good shape. Later of that group, are ones has great possibilities to win a ticket to assist the World Cup to see for the Far and Near rim players.

So the present status is

26 players are out of game
03 players are in doubt
04 players are probably winners
33 players are still playing
66 playes in total

CODE

BET CLOSE TIME APRIL 8, 2006
Sol bet    Member   Status
010    dot.dk         out
600    Delgr6328      out
680    Gpurcell       out
688    Imran          out
691    Garybeau       out
721    Cugel          out
747    Redstone       out
748    MichaelT       out
777    Paxdan         out
780    Alan           out
801    Avkillick      out
840    Antoniseb      out
820    Mhoward        out
842    MahFL          out
855    Remcook        out
866    centsworth_II  out
868    Bubbinski      out
875    ToSeek         out
875    Ibasso         out
876    Imran          out
884    Helvick        out
887    Marz           out
888    Marswiggle     out
890    Andyg          out
897    SFJCody        out
900    Stevo          out
902    ElkGroveDan    maybe
904    Steve          maybe
911    Myran          maybe
915    Bergadder      probably
917    David S        probably
920    MaxSt          probably
921    Mony python    probably
933    MzarKey
934    Atomoid
935    Climber
940    Toma B
942    Michaelcapobianco
947    Rneuhaus
948    Rakhir
958    Airbag
960    Tesheiner
969    mars_loon
973    Jamescanvin
980    Adam
987    Imipak
998    Dvandorn
999    Chris
1000    General
1000    Djellison
1003    Ant103
1013    Decepticon
1014    Joffan
1024    Marsman
1024    Um3k
1036    Alan
1066    Pertinax
1110    Bob Shaw
1111    Nirgal
1124    Reckless
1138    Hendric
1200    Nirgal
1237    Nprev
1500    OWW
1500    Akuo
1500    CosmicRocker

Minimum    10    dot.dk
Maximum    1500    OWW, Akuo, CosmicRock
Average    934.83    None
Median    927    Mizarkey

Rodolfo

ElkGroveDan

Jun 8 2006, 02:26 AM

QUOTE (Bobby @ Jun 5 2006, 11:04 PM)

Please forgive me

You are forgiven, Shirley.

ustrax

Jun 8 2006, 08:23 AM

QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Jun 8 2006, 03:09 AM)

To remaind about the bet list.

Rodolfo, are you giving me a second chance by not making reference to my bet?...

dilo

Jun 8 2006, 08:43 PM

ehm, Rodolfo, could you please insert my bet (Sol927, probably out...

)

dot.dk

Jun 8 2006, 09:52 PM

QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Jun 8 2006, 02:09 AM)

To remaind about the bet list.

Minimum 10 dot.dk
Maximum 1500 OWW, Akuo, CosmicRock
Average 934.83 None
Median 927 Mizarkey

When did I bet for a SOL 10 arrival?

Bob Shaw

Jun 8 2006, 10:19 PM

Why don't we ask Mr Squyres to adjudicate for us regarding arrival day?

Over to you, Doug...

Bob Shaw

climber

Jun 8 2006, 11:56 PM

To remaind about the bet list.

Minimum 10 dot.dk
Maximum 1500 OWW, Akuo, CosmicRock
Average 934.83 None
Median 927 Mizarkey

Even if I hate to be "the mean", you'll have to admit that my Sol 935 bet (which I decided afetr lot and lot of computation) is THE closest to the mean. What does this mean ?

RNeuhaus

Jun 9 2006, 03:15 AM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Jun 8 2006, 03:23 AM)

Rodolfo, are you giving me a second chance by not making reference to my bet?...

Sure yes!, Thesh has broke the USMF rules and so everybody will come to bet for the VC's arrival date. Drop your sol date!

QUOTE (dilo @ Jun 8 2006, 03:43 PM)

ehm, Rodolfo, could you please insert my bet (Sol927, probably out...

)

Yup, yes, at the end I will make up another list of bets.

QUOTE (dot.dk @ Jun 8 2006, 04:52 PM)

When did I bet for a SOL 10 arrival?

You wrote:

CODE

If we could do 200 m / SOL it would only take 10 SOLs laugh.gif

The post is No. 8 http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...indpost&p=16330

Incredible prediction. but it is fine only when it is under an exceptional mental condition!

Rodolfo

dot.dk

Jun 9 2006, 09:50 AM

QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Jun 9 2006, 03:15 AM)

Incredible prediction. but it is fine only when it is under an exceptional mental condition!

That was not a real bet

And you are mixing arrival SOL and sols remaining here

RNeuhaus

Jun 9 2006, 01:10 PM

QUOTE (dot.dk @ Jun 9 2006, 04:50 AM)

That was not a real bet

And you are mixing arrival SOL and sols remaining here

Tell me what is your bet. Oppy is still very far from VC.

Rodolfo

Tesheiner

Jun 9 2006, 02:13 PM

I think it would be fine to have not only the expected arrival date for each of us but the date in which the bet was made; it's a nice "qualifier" because it's not the same to bet for sol 900 on Jan 2006 then on Jul 2005.

climber

Jun 9 2006, 02:25 PM

[quote name='Tesheiner' date='Jun 9 2006, 04:13 PM' post='57751']
I think it would be fine to have not only the expected arrival date for each of us but the date in which the bet was made; it's a nice "qualifier" because it's not the same to bet for sol 900 on Jan 2006 then on Jul 2005.

I agree, you've got to include a ratio.
Have fun

RNeuhaus

Jun 9 2006, 04:57 PM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Jun 9 2006, 09:13 AM)

I think it would be fine to have not only the expected arrival date for each of us but the date in which the bet was made; it's a nice "qualifier" because it's not the same to bet for sol 900 on Jan 2006 then on Jul 2005.

This is also good suggestion since it promotes more bet diversion and traffics. I have already jotted down the bet date of every players. I will update any new/update bets along with their bet dates on next week.

Rodolfo

RNeuhaus

Jun 13 2006, 04:52 PM

Updated at Sol 846

CODE

___________________________________________________
Last sol drive            846
Soles since start         88
Transversed distance    1,269 meters 57.7%
Average speed            14.4 m/sol
Remaining distance     931 meters
___________________________________________________
Outlook arrival date: 910.6 Sol --> Aug 11 at 14.4 m/sol speed average
Outlook arrival date: 939.1 Sol --> Sept 9  at 10 m/sol speed average

I have added a new outlook arrival date for Corner Crater which is now about 529.5 meters at Sol 846

CODE

Outlook arrival date at CC 882.7 Sol --->Jul 14 36.7 Soles at 14.4 m/sol speed average
Outlook arrival date at CC 899.0 Sol --->Jul 31 53.0 Soles at 10.0 m/sol speed average

Click here for previous update

Rodolfo

RNeuhaus

Jun 21 2006, 04:13 PM

Update for the sol 855, some improvement with respect to the sol 848 (average speed/sol was 14.4 and now it is 15.0 m/sol).

Details for approaching to Victoria Crater

CODE

___________________________________________________
Last sol drive            855
Soles since start         97
Transversed distance    1,455 meters 66.1%
Average speed            15.0 m/sol
Remaining distance     745 meters
___________________________________________________
Outlook arrival date: 904.7 Sol --> Aug 8   at 15.0 m/sol speed average
Outlook arrival date: 929.5 Sol --> Sept 2  at 10.0 m/sol speed average

Details for approaching to Beagle Crater

CODE

___________________________________________________
Remaining distance 334.40 meters
___________________________________________________
Outlook arrival date: 877.3 Sol --> Jul 12 at 15.0 m/sol speed average
Outlook arrival date: 888.4 Sol --> Jul 23 at 10.0 m/sol speed average

Previous update details

The probable arrival to BC depends on how much time will Oppy spend visiting around the BC. If she will spend about 20 sols, then the VC arrival date would be
between 924.7 to 949.5 Sol.

Then, the list of members are still playing for the Prize Ahead Victoria invented by Ustrax!

There are still 35 players at the distance of 745 meters away from VC.

CODE

920    MaxSt
921    Mony python
933    MzarKey
934    Atomoid
935    Climber
940    Toma B
942    Michaelcapobianco
947    Rneuhaus
948    Rakhir
958    Airbag
960    Tesheiner
969    mars_loon
973    Jamescanvin
980    Adam
987    Imipak
998    Dvandorn
999    Chris
1000    General
1000    Djellison
1003    Ant103
1013    Decepticon
1014    Joffan
1024    Marsman
1024    Um3k
1036    Alan
1066    Pertinax
1110    Bob Shaw
1111    Nirgal
1124    Reckless
1138    Hendric
1200    Nirgal
1237    Nprev
1500    OWW
1500    Akuo
1500    CosmicRocker

I don't know about how much near and far rimers fans are in the above list.

Rodolfo

ustrax

Jun 21 2006, 04:17 PM

QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Jun 21 2006, 05:13 PM)

Then, the list of members are still playing for the Prize Ahead Victoria invented by Ustrax!

Nope...Not me...
I only invent abysses...

RNeuhaus

Jun 21 2006, 04:46 PM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Jun 21 2006, 11:17 AM)

Nope...Not me...
I only invent abysses...

Then, where did "Ahead Victoria" comes from?

You put a nice caravel stamps on your design pictures.

Rodolfo

ustrax

Jun 21 2006, 04:49 PM

QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Jun 21 2006, 05:46 PM)

Then, where did "Ahead Victoria" comes from?

You put a nice caravel stamps on your design pictures.

Rodolfo

That was a logo created to follow Opportunity sailing towards Victoria, the pool I believe it was generated by Shirl...er...Bobby...

RNeuhaus

Jul 2 2006, 11:13 PM

Update at the sol 867

CODE

___________________________________________________
Last sol drive            867
Soles since start         109
Transversed distance    1,622 meters 73.7%
Average speed            14.9 m/sol
Remaining distance     578 meters
___________________________________________________
Outlook arrival date: 905.8 Sol --> Aug 9   at 15.0 m/sol speed average
Outlook arrival date: 924.8 Sol --> Aug 28  at 10.0 m/sol speed average

Previous update at sol 855

CODE

___________________________________________________
Last sol drive            855
Soles since start         97
Transversed distance    1,455 meters 66.1%
Average speed            15.0 m/sol
Remaining distance     745 meters
___________________________________________________
Outlook arrival date: 904.7 Sol --> Aug 8   at 15.0 m/sol speed average
Outlook arrival date: [u]925.5 Sol --> Aug 29 [/u]at 10.0 m/sol speed average

corrected

Outlook comments
The transverse progress has maintained constant between the soles 855 and 867 with the average speed around 15 meters/sol. However, it seems that the Oppy's arrival at Victoria crater would be between 20-40 soles longer since the probable future scenary is that Oppy will be going slower toward Beagle crater due to the communications restrictions due to the concurrency of uplink data of commands to be executed next sol and also of new flight software version. However, JPL will try whenever possible to maximize the uplink througput by spliting the channels between UHF with Odyssey and HGA with x-band direct from DSN. When Oppy is on Beagle crater, it seems like she will remain on there for local geology explorations during between 20-30 soles.

After that, I don't know where she will go: directly to Promontory Beacon at Near Rim (

), to others small craters or to the far side rim to maximize the sun North face tilt.

Rodolfo

RNeuhaus

Aug 14 2006, 09:38 PM

As the Oppy has started its journey toward to Victoria Crater and I have rescurreted the almost buried topic. I am posting the relation of bet participants. Luckly, all participants are within the probable arrival date at Victoria. So the suspense will grow with the coming Mars soles.

Now, Oppy is on its 909 Mar Soles.

Forecast:
The solstice of August 8 is over and the Sun start to rise on Mars' skies and the Sun rays will be starting to strike harder on the solar panels. The still cold weather will help to harden the sand with the some kind of layer of dioxide carbone not still sublimated. These will permit to minimize the rover slipage toward the VC. The smoother and small jumps on ripples, and no much obstacles (hope but never loose any ahead vision and not trust to the present HAZCAM technology -not good for sand but yes for rocky surface-). The surface will become monotone and Oppy will be stopping just only for few moments to scratch the sand and zoom in its IDD on the compact sand (I speculate it in order to analyze the difference of surface composition between the border of arpon and rims).

So, Oppy has left since Mars Sol 907 on its trip to VC which is around 580 meters away. Up to now, the view of the rim is very subtle except to some beacons. Imagine when Oppy is on the rim, it would be able to see well on the other side of the rim which is at 750 meters away.

The roulette has started to spin for the Mars Sol winner!!!

CODE

920    MaxSt
921    Mony python
933    MzarKey
934    Atomoid
935    Climber
940    Toma B
942    Michaelcapobianco
947    Rneuhaus
948    Rakhir
958    Airbag
960    Tesheiner
969    mars_loon
973    Jamescanvin
980    Adam
987    Imipak
998    Dvandorn
999    Chris
1000    General
1000    Djellison
1003    Ant103
1013    Decepticon
1014    Joffan
1024    Marsman
1024    Um3k
1036    Alan
1066    Pertinax
1110    Bob Shaw
1111    Nirgal
1124    Reckless
1138    Hendric
1237    Nprev
1500    OWW
1500    Akuo
1500    CosmicRocker

No more bets, so they will be staying hanging on the fence.

If there is enough quorum, then there will be another round of bet????

Rodolfo

Nirgal

Aug 15 2006, 10:35 AM

QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 14 2006, 11:38 PM)

As the Oppy has started its journey toward to Victoria Crater and I have rescurreted the almost buried topic.
Rodolfo

looks good for your Sol 947 bet, Rodolfo :-)

(although I for myself pessimistically voted for Sol 1111 (taking into account a broken wheel like Spirit), my optimistic hope would be for arrival on Sept. 12
... )

BTW.: just as side note: I'm not a native englisch speaker and probably I'm wrong, but shouldn't it read "Poll" instead of "Pool" ... just a typo or can one actually use the word "Pool" for a this kind of voting ?(just courious and always trying to improve my english ;-)

paxdan

Aug 15 2006, 11:21 AM

QUOTE (Nirgal @ Aug 15 2006, 11:35 AM)

BTW.: just as side note: I'm not a native englisch speaker and probably I'm wrong, but shouldn't it read "Poll" instead of "Pool" ... just a typo or can one actually use the word "Pool" for a this kind of voting ?(just courious and always trying to improve my english ;-)

Pool is correct in the context.

Phil Stooke

Aug 15 2006, 12:57 PM

People 'pool' their contributions (money usually, maybe Mars bars here) - they put them all together - and the winner takes it all.

Phil

Bill Harris

Aug 15 2006, 02:58 PM

And, in the southern USA, there are "betting pools" and "football pools", so there is an element of chance or gambling with a "pool".

--Bill

fredk

Aug 15 2006, 03:45 PM

Well, since the topic of the title has come up, that "if" has always bugged me a bit - should be "of".

Unless the topic starter meant to indicate that Oppy might not arive at VC, in which case it could be "Arrival, if ever, of Oppy at Victoria".

--- end nitpicking gramatical mode ---

mars loon

Aug 15 2006, 10:05 PM

Well to get some clarification on this inscrutible point of what was meant on "if" vs "of" , here is what the topic starter wrote

looks like a simple typo

QUOTE (avkillick @ Aug 5 2005, 07:50 PM)

OK - for a little diversion, give your best guess as to the arrival of Oppy at Victoria. Before we do that, perhaps some agreement as when we can say that event has happened.

First complete panorama of crater interior perhaps?

otherwise pool looks good to me

and has "arrival" been herein precisely defined ?

ken

mhoward

Aug 15 2006, 10:32 PM

QUOTE (mars loon @ Aug 15 2006, 10:05 PM)

Well to get some clarification on this inscrutible point of what was meant on "if" vs "of" , ...

Cleaned up the title.