Very nice!

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Science and driving have always been the goals of rover imaging. As far as I know it's only been a very few times that scenery has been a factor. Imaging Earth is the only one that comes to mind now.

But as we all know, the results have certainly been scenic. The reason is just that we've been to some incredibly scenic places. So images intended for science/engineering can give the impression of being planned for scenic effect (especially after they've been carefully cropped!).

But we've only got down a portion of the panorama so far. We haven't seen the full framing yet!

And it's common practice to take wide or full 360 panoramic pancam mosaics at especially important sites. You can't always know where to target the pancam based on the navcams since they don't have colour information and are lower resolution than pancam.

That's the best thing about Concepcion - its location. They can't help capturing the scenery.

At a basic level, documenting the key waypoints of our traverses is just common sense.

New pancams are down! I'm not even going to try to add them to The Panorama - I'll leave that to Ant and James! - but I would like to highlight a couple of rocks seen more clearly in the new images...

Click to view attachment

There's a "mini Wopmay" bottom left there, as Nick already pointed out, but this fella is pretty striking, don't you think..?

Click to view attachment

I thought that "your fella" was actually mini-Wopmay.
BTW, I checked the pancam web and it has been named "Mahanay Island".

Looks like fracture fill. Makes sense that the bedrock would separate along a pre-existing fracture on impact.

I agree.

Stu, thanks for posting these images, especially the "little fella" (Mahanay Island is it?). This rock shows very well the degradation process in action on the Meridiani rocks. In a previous post, I was wondering why other (older) craters that we've seen weren't surrounded by rocks, like Conceptión is. The answer is right there. The rocks simply disintegrate away, like Phil mentioned. If this rock has only been exposed for 1000 - 10,000 years, imagine what would be left of it in a million years.

Thanks charborob, I find this an interesting image too - look at the huge differences between the two largest rocks visible on it. The layered one on the left, that looks like rotten wood (but ISN'T!!!!! If any Woo Woo'ers are reading, that's a visual comparison, I'm not saying it's a tree, ok?!?!?!) looks so fragile and delicate you can imagine touching it and seeing it fall to pieces. The one on the right, another "mini-Wopmay", looks much denser and sturdier.

Click to view attachment

There will be some fascinating 3D views here soon, I'm sure...

Nice pile of blueberries around Mahanay Island, could be useful in making a more precise age estimate.

Stu, I think the differences you mention are more about viewing the layers end-on or face-on. They look like similar rocks to me.

Phil

You think? Hmm. They look quite different to me - the one on the left has none of that Wopmayesque crazy-paving surface structure.... You may be right. I'll look forward to a closer look.

Right, but the one on the left turns its Wopmay face away from us. It's still probably as wrinkled as I am.

Phil

OOOhhh Boy....

I think the rock hounds are gonna wanna stay here a while.

Craig

They may get their wish. From the latest PS report:

What I find intriguing is how we have sharp, clean shear faces on some rocks, and at the same time, very obvious erosion on the others.

Amusing error in this new blurb:
I guess the MGS folks would have something to say about that...

I'm guessing the caption writer got a bit carried away from the starting point that Concepcion is probably the youngest crater that Oppy has visited.

But the Planetary Society report attributes to Squires the comment that this is the freshest crater on Mars?

Clearly a typo. Probably meant to say "This is by far the freshest crater we've visited yet on Mars..."

From this pancam picture...

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...66P2369L2M1.JPG

...there is a real nice example of a fully-mineralized crack in a fragment of ejecta....


Click to view attachment

Next drive is planned for tomorrow, sol 2143.

Got a horrible feeling this is going to appear very naive but I'm going to post anyway...

Reading this thread there appears to be an assumption (which I'm sure is correct) that Concepcion cannot possibly be the youngest crater (at least of this size) on Mars. Do we know for sure that is the case? Can this be proved statistically or simply by the evidence in front of our eyes?

Statistically, I'd be very interested to know how regularly meteorites form such craters on Mars (and how this number compares to Earth)?

With our eyes, I'm assuming that we have pictures over the last 30 years of Mars showing new craters and therefore proving Concepcion is not the youngest?

Neil

Absolutely right. We have before-after images of lots of craters forming in the last decade or so. This one, merely by virtue of its ejecta being so visible over the drifts, is the youngest seen so far by our rover.

Phil

And statistical evidence you say?

Well, I'd say that Opportunity is a rover which systematically demolishes every statistical presupposition... From it's "hole in one" touchdown, to all it did since then. So, statistics are out, and Oppy would probably also have landed right within roveable distance to the freshest crater on Mars if it could have...

NW71, MGS and MRO have imaged areas of Martian terrain multiple times, and on at least one occasion, a crater appeared in the later image that was not there in the earlier image.
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010200_1805

And CTX has spotted over 100 new craters on Mars in our brief history of Martian exploration.

Thanks guys... I did say I might regret the naivety of that post... (walks off, slightly embarrassed)

Neil

MRO: New Impact Craters on Mars

MGS MOC: Present-Day Impact Cratering on Mars

Neil--No problem asking questions. After a year or two of reading all the posts, you will be a space expert . Well at least you will read what the real space experts have to say. Welcome.

No problem, Neil. I'm sure you weren't the only one out there.

And, Oersted's jesting aside, the odds of Oppy finding the youngest crater really are ridiculously low. Total Mars surface area is around 140 000 000 sq km. Area visited by Oppy is something like 20 km x 0.1 km = 2 sq km. Call it 100 sq km if you like. Then we've visited around one millionth of the surface. So the odds are one in a million that we'd stumble on the youngest crater. And even if we did, it wouldn't stay the youngest for long!

Let's hope that Concepcion doesn't become the youngest crater on Mars anytime in the near future.

Should we rename the crater Misconcepcion?

Phil

Don't worry, Neil, as they say, there are no stupid questions... Actually, that's not true; there are some VERY stupid questions, but you haven't asked any yet!

Badda-booom, tsssshhhhh

Phil, that has to be an earlier contender for pun of the year (that is a competition I would not enjoy judging)!

Seriously, thank you (Stu, Dan, Doug, Fred, Oersted, Hungry4info, Floyd, Tesheiner etc) for the reassurance and the time you have all taken answering queries etc. I'm only just beginning to realise just how many factors and how many different directions this forum can go in... If you're ready to answer them I'm ready to keep asking them!

Until the next query...

Neil

It is not hard to infer that "this crater/rock is older than that one" by comparing which one is more weathered, but absolute age... IIUC now it is only tentatively known than Concepción is somewhere between 100 and 10000 years old, right?

What can be done by rovers in order to better constrain absolute ages of features on Mars? Come to think of it, I don't know how geologists do it on Earth either... These rovers can't do radioisotope dating, so what then can do?

Can APXS detect hydrogen/water? Can it be put into crater's dust covered center? In very young craters, ice may still very slowly sublimate from under surface, long after it looks covered by dry dust... OTOH, do we have detectable subsurface ice here, on the equator?

If we could find the impactor that created Concepcion crater, we might possibly be able to estimate how long it has been on Mars from APXS isotope measurements. Not sure if APXS can measure the relevant isotopes, but products of cosmic ray impacts while in space decay at a known rate after landfall on the surface.

The layering in some of these rocks is stunning. !!

I'm still stunned by Phil's pun...

I think what is really and truly interesting in these rocks are the status of the blueberries. From what I have read from previous posts is that it would take "millions" of years for the blueberries to fall out of the "muffin" rocks. Here we are seeing this in 1000's of years.

Before I sign off for the night I would like to put my thoughts down on this crater. The previous "hypothesis" of how the blueberries are eroding out of the bedrock just does not make sense if this crater is so young. The rock faces should not only be razor sharp but the blueberries should be broken in many cases (not all) along the fractures of the bedrock due to the impact. This is not what we are seeing here. Either this crater is much older than what has been stated (in this case - move on to Endurance ASAP as there is no real science here) or the blueberries are not concretions but something else.

I am sorry but the blueberries along the route to Endurance have stayed the same size for many kilometers. If these are truly concretions we should be seeing the size of the blueberries differ by great amounts over this distance. I hope Juramike is reading this thread - I would love to hear his take on this.

Here's what may be one reason to stick around. I've noticed a couple of cobbles that stand out recently. Here's a good example: it's much smoother than the meridiani pavement ejecta, and also much darker in L2:
Click to view attachment
Could this be a piece of the impactor?

hee hee hee

"Should we rename the crater Misconcepcion?"

Wow, that went over quite well. I must be witty more often.

Phil

Well, the first time's always a charm...

Very interesting sighting, Fred! I believe today is a driving day, so we can all play "Spot the Impactor"!

(Any we find, Nick gets to keep as birthday presents - happy birthday Nick! )

Yes it was.
There are still no images on the exploratorium (another bottleneck in the pipeline?) but from the available data it was something like a few meters back over the tracks and then 5m east. Is there any interesting rock on that area?

(Happy birthday Nick!)

Nice view now...

Click to view attachment