I think that what Paolo is after is not a fixed track, but rather a comprehensive analysis that will help him and the other rover drivers determine which track they'll finally opt for. Just pinning down one particular route won't help much.... But I could be wrong of course.

For me it would be the arrival time that matters.. as we do not know how much time Oppert still has in his wheels and machines.
Once it is there.. and we discover fascinating things... and our little rover is still alive and.. rolling .. than there is always time to look back
But now.. personally, I would travel in a straight line.. driving, when possible.. taking photo's along the way !

I have been looking at the maps and must say.. there are some straight lines possible.
Do not look back, except once, when you leave Victoria realy behind you.. and than day in.. day out.. sol in .. sol out
en route to the grande crater that will teach us soo much and.. perhaps at the end of Oppert's time will be the great gift for all of us..

The Rover has already made it's way into the books that future generations will read before they go to sleep.

This machine will get.. should get .. a statue in the first Mars Colony anway.. (grin)
eh.. in 100 years men will find Oppert where it stopped and will turn it into that statue !
(or revive it and send it on another quest)

"Holy mackrel dere, Beauford! You're way ahead of us all! Can you show us this track drawn on a maximum HiRISE resolution image of the area?"

...nice to meet you, Shaka, et al.

I will try to provide such a track, but I must confess that my earlier post was done by pouring over http://marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov/HiRISE/hirise...SP_001414_1780/, with the help of a ruler and high school trigonometry. (I must also confess having some "lust in my heart" for this general path for a few months now. So I've had plenty of time to look at it.) My capabilities in this regard are pretty lowly.

You will find that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th legs lie nearly exactly along a straight line running for 3.6 km at 170 degrees from Explorer/"Sofi" to what I have speculated is an old crater. The so called old crater has a diameter of about 100 m, and its shpincter is easily identifiable in the HiRISE image. This crater does not look particularly interesting to me, but the path from here to the giraffe (a new(?) feature that is about 75 m from "head" to "rear hoof"), and from the giraffe to Endeavor, has a large percentage of pavement blown free. This should make for "easy" travel to the E and SE, and a high probably of finding cobbles (and the impact sites) that are exposed. ...a little bit like walking around in the Antarctica?

The only feature I mention that is a little hard to find is the tiny crater/cobble? at the end of the second leg. It is near the SE corner of a large exposed area.

OK, OK, I said I couldn't do it, but I couldn't resist an experiment.

I mosaicked several screen shots off the IAS viewer at 25% scale - which is fine for identifying large drifts.

I high pass filtered it to take out gradients.

I grossly increased contrast, so every shaded drift surface was black, most of the rest white.

I selected all the black, contracted the selection 1 pixel to remove small drifts, expanded that selection 2 pixels for easier visibility, and painted the selection black.

Result, in about 2 minutes I had very nicely mapped out the areas of larger drifts. You could outline good and bad areas very quickly like this.

This isn't perfect but it is fast! The posted version is reduced again from the 25% scale.

Phil

Click to view attachment

It shows you what God could do, if He had Photoshop Pro!

Really, Phil, your quick fix is all "pearls before swine", but I'm momentarily at a loss to find my way through all the dots!
Can you superimpose a few possible paths we might choose? And can you also superimpose the interesting cobbles?
TIA

Shaka…those are pertinent words and lead to, once more, hail this fórum as u-n-i-q-u-e…
Here we have met, dreamed and discussed, here we have gathered around the bonfire, every and each one us giving what it has of most precious, endeavouring towards the accomplishment of a goal, working together, in the true sense of what a community shall be.
Here we formulate questions, here we quest the answers.
Here we dream, here we gather our so different skills and wisdoms, here the work is done.
Here we formulate the path, here we quest the arrival.
But yes, I must concur, you know I must, with you, it is the path, not the arrival itself that entices me the most, this one may even assume an anti-climax role, because the journey itself is of such richness and challenge, of such beauty and primeval enchantment that, I’ll speak for myself, you’ll wish it would last forever.

This mission, the Mars Exploration Rover Mission, has been, through all this Sols, unfolding before our eyes, a whole new world, a whole new knowledge and reality, this mission has, Sol after Sol, reminding us that, as the poet said, everything is worthy if the soul is not small. Magical, as only a Human saga can be…

This mission has been followed in this house, that Doug dreamed and that we all built, like in no place else, here we have witnessed marvellous achievements, Mars revealing itself before our eyes in all its shapes and shades, in all its dust and rust, in all its meteorites and all sort of geological “ites”…among us who imagined what hematite was? What jarosite was? I didn’t as so many others, but here…here we found answers but way much more than that…
We have found ourselves on Mars, riding the dunes and climbing the hills.
We have found ourselves gathering our brain power to find solutions for the challenging task of being on another world.

I can’t dissociate the MER mission from UMSF, this is not to be read as a pedantic or overrated statement, but as the expression of my deepest believe: this mission and this forum have marked a new ground in space exploration.

I am not a science man, I am someone seeking answers about our nature, about my nature, but here, at this forum, and in this mission’s territories of legend, I have found science, and engineering, to be part of that quest…
The whole, the aura envolving the myth, the facts giving life to the truth, is present at this forum.

I can’t dissociate the MER from UMSF, and the last events don’t surprise me, we all should be thankful, but we all should see it coming, MER and UMSF have been on converging roads since the landing of Spirit and Opportunity on Gusev and Meridiani, the arrival of Paolo Belluta and his request come as the confirmation of something unavoidable, once more I don’t want this words to be interpreted as pedantic, you guys know me…let me add…there may be a spacEurope, but there is no place like home, and that home is UMSF.

Regarding Paolo’s challenge itself, I’ll be here to help in what I can, but as said previously, this is not exactly the field where I feel to be more comfortable, in spite a certain arise…there is a legion of UMSFers ready to take it on its shoulders and to reach the desired answers.

I can’t dissociate both MER and UMSF from the extraordinary adventure we are privileged to testify, as mechanical experts, software sourcerers or image goldsmiths, or just by the sheer and incomparable joy of chasing a dream, may it be a abyss or treasures lay, or an island awaiting from a long journey, from a long odyssey…

As said, I am here volunteering to measure, sniff and taste martian dunes’ grains if necessary…but this smile and this inner, pure joy, no one can’t take away from my face and heart, why? Because the most important step has been taken, to go, once more, Onward.

“Give the breath, the breeze - or misfortune or the eager desire-
With which the flame of endeavour is rejuvenated,
And again shall we conquer the Remoteness-
Of the sea or some other, but let it be our own!”

Fernando Pessoa
In A Mensagem


Now…let’s work! Where do I sign?

PS: Sorry for the lengthy post, but I just got carried away...

Shaka, the game is called Avoid the Dots ! (or at least I think so, at 03.00 in the morning I can't be sure )

Here is my path

(I will go ahead and order T-shirts with "Phil made me a rover driver" printed on them)

PS. Ustrax, great words for great emotions, as usual !

God bless ya, Rui, you're always an inspiration and stimulation to us all!
I sometimes even wish El Dorado had actually been an abyss!
In fact, if I could choose just one person to be cast away on a desert island with Stu, I'd choose you.

The LF wheel did show some signs of trouble but the reason we left the crater is because if we had lost the wheel there the likelyhood of leaving on 5 wheels was pretty low. Spirit right before losing the RF drive actuator had a similar behaviour and in a few sols the actuator was gone. On the plains it is different, we can drive on 5 wheels, not sure what kind of ripples we can cross, but the experience with Spirit is a good asset. I'm not sure I can divulge what type of slopes Spirit can cross on 5 wheels (uphill) but I'm sure you can figure out yourself if you are really curious

Paolo

What I'm after is finding a way to keep up with you guys!

Seriously, at the moment I'm trying to find a way to classify the HiRISE image that includes VC and surrounding areas so that we can identify areas that look similar to what we have driven on. Once we have this tool we can start mapping the drive. I'm also looking for suggestions on what to keep in mind when outlining the path, to that extent trying to favor a path that would allow driving on 5 wheels is very good. I'm sure we will have to make compromises, but the more heads are on this issue, the better we are off. By WE I mean UMSF (I hope I can be considered part of the team here). I think that if what we come up is good, I'm pretty sure the drivers and the science team would take that into account.

If this effort saves Opportunity even just one sol, it would be one more sol at the end of the mission. And that sol might make quite a bit of a difference.

Paolo

Thank you, El Chemisto, for enlightening me. I did notice that there are some areas along the proposed track where you don't quite avoid every single dot - you sort of...well...run over them. My question is: does Phils graph allow you to calculate the probability that you will succeed in getting to the other side?
TIA

My intention is not to map every ripple, but to allow areas of good and bad textures to be quickly evaluated. That's all.

Phil

Your quote interested me enough to look up the original:

Dá o sopro, a aragem - ou desgraça ou ânsia -
Com que a chama do esforço se remoça,
E outra vez conquistaremos a Distância -
Do mar ou outra, mas que seja nossa!

It reminds me of these old maps I've been looking at copies of, illustrating the early discoveries of the Portuguese sailors of the 15th and 16th centuries; I suppose no people has been as animated by the spirit of discovery as the Portuguese. These maps range from early ones, mere outline sketches crossed with rhumb-lines, to immense ornamental works, in which the unknown land beyond the shore grows wild with trees and parrots and monkeys and dragons. We've charted a shore; a vast interior beckons.

Welcome indeed Paolo .... and do not feel bad if you find it hard to keep up here.... these are all dedicated dudes and dudettes to be sure.

What a wonder..... what a synergy of minds this forum has become!!! Not all of us are scientits or engineers, nor even technically astute... but we all share that special inner itch to "BE" on other worlds. To know them as intimately as we can. PLACES as real as the desk where I type this. To be able to wander in that great palace of our minds on sands of strange silicates and exotic chemistries, to feel the brush of a dry ice breeze or the freeze of a methane gail.

To be able to be part of such a community.... even if my contributions are little but cheerleading... what an honor to be part of this and what an honor to know folks like yourself are part of this too.

Welcome, Paolo.

Now... let's help drive...........................

Craig

You might want to compare the 'frequency' of the dunes with the width of the rover to avoid hitting some weak ratio, like, getting too often all the wheels on sandy slopes instead of keeping some on the bottom ground.

Fran O's point is IMHO an important one. It reminds us that it is very difficult to improve upon the information content of a high resolution HiRISE image of the ground we want to cross. Why would we prefer a color-coded indication of the average size or interval or direction of ripples over a broad area, when we can see each and every ripple ahead of us on the photograph? We can literally measure the distance between two particular ripples and know whether the rover will fit between them. We can see whether one particular trough leads to an interesting cobble and choose to follow it for that reason. We can see that there is an open roadway of exposed bedrock trending in the direction we want to go, and so move directly toward it to facilitate our progress, while getting a good look at the nature of the bedrock along the way.

I would like to reiterate the goal of our PIs to examine ejecta cobbles which may be samples of subsurface Meridiani rock not yet studied. The 'randomly scattered' small cobbles exposed throughout the region are not especially likely to represent the former. They may have traveled any distance, from a few kilometers to thousands of kilometers, and so represent any Martian area. It is the large clusters of cobbles that are more likely to have come from fresh craters in the immediate area, e.g. Beagle Crater, that are likely to include samples from the Meridiani subsurface. These should be a primary goal of our track. We really should go over the best HiRISE mosaic of the southeast quandrant from Victoria to highlight these clusters and try to work them into our proposed track.

I find imipak's idea great.
My 2 cents:
Each square would have a model of the rover to scale embedded (so you could drive around the ripples.. If you scale the image the rover would scale too.
In addition each square would have an arrow with the general direction of driving (to determine this, is the tricky part; maybe another guru could). The volunteer would then select 3-5 routes with the least crest crossings (which I understand is the major concern of the whole drive). Some other guru would then assemble the individual squares and determine the consensus route(s).

Both the direction and the 'wavelength' of the ripples (compared to the length of the rover) are of great importance. Having to run straight against the direction of the ripples, even for a very short while, can cost you a lot of delay. From this point of view 'avoiding the dots' might not necessarily be the best option, if it results in a route where, somewhere along the way, you have to run against some bad ripples. If you create a route where you run in between the ripples you might still be able to make reasonable speed, even in a field of ripples.

Normally in my job I guide big containerships across the oceans, which has a bit in common with this situation in that we know our point of departure and our destiny and we have a fixed departure date and a scheduled arrival time. In between is a big ocean which we divide in squares with each square having its own predicted weather (with a given percentage of certainty), waves of a certain direction and a certain length, wind from a certain direction, etc, etc. Once you have all these squares filled in with their predicted wave-condition it is quite easy to let the computer calculate the most optimal route. For this we use a polar diagram stating the speed and fuel consumption of the vessel when meeting waves of a certain height and certain wavelength from a certain direction. Given the experience with oppy it might be possible to make a similar diagram: how much progress can it make when meeting ripples of a certain wavelength at a certain angle? Once you have this diagram it is reasonable easy to have a computer figure out the best route through a complex ripple-field. Note for ships we normally find that the height of the waves is of less importance then their wavelength (compared to the ships length), I guess it is more or less similar for oppy: a low but steep ripple will give you far more trouble then a high but 'long' ripple.

Is there a way we can use the sun-angle in the various HiRISE images to predict wavelength and direction of the ripples? Ripples will reflect more or less light depending on the sunangle and their own wavelength and direction. Even the filter used on the particular image might help to identify direction and wavelength of the ripples. Looking at only the colour of the terrain in one particular image seems too vague for me, you can only compare it to known terrain if the sun angle in both images is the same.

I guess the biggest issue is not 'plotting a route' but 'filling in the squares', finding a method to predict direction and wavelength of the ripples etc, from the HiRISE images, only once we have figured this out and we have a 'polar diagram' for oppy given the expected progress in a certain direction in any type of terrain, we can start plotting a route.

With a bit of software-engineering you might even be able to leave the final route-planning completely up to oppy itself, just upload a detailed digital map of the terrain (stating direction and wavelength of ripples and sort of terrain in any position) and enter a position where you like to go to and a date and time of scheduled arrival and it should be able to plot its own optimal route through any terrain, no matter how complex, we do this for ships on a daily basis so it's not really that complicated, the BIG trick is finding a way to get an accurate digital map of the terrain.

It sounds like a very good and doable idea to me.
I think you would have to import the data as a csv or a spreadsheet, then create a grid from it using the algorithm of your choice. Then you could contour the grid. I own a copy of Surfer, so if the project gets this far, I'd be happy to grid and contour the data.
That's pretty impressive for a quick experiment, Phil. I'm glad you couldn't resist. Here's hoping you continue to not resist.

Now if someone were to repeat Phil's experiment at three different levels of contrast, and then drop each of the three into a different color layer you would get a nice colored spectrum of possible dune size/density.

I can't decide if that's very funny, or very hurtful...

Of course, should have said 'convert to a grid.' Another copy of Surfer here. If it becomes necessary it might be good to make a record of which software tools people on the forum have access to so we know who to pass data to for particular kinds of processing.

If I may butt into a discussion by far more knowledgeable people -

Looking at that map made by Phil and the path by TheChemist, there looks to be a section where even the best path will go through a nasty section. I took the liberty of marking that part of the route red. Will something special have to be done here? Is there a realistic possibility that good HiRISE imagery will show a good path not visible with this picture, or will Oppy simply have to forge on through? (The places I put yellow spots look a little nasty, too, but not nearly as bad).

I'm not criticizing the route - just asking how this will be handled.

By the way, what portion of the distance to Endeavour does this map cover? Are we aiming for a certain point on the rim, so that we should angle left or right leaving the bottom of this map?

How does the risk of crossing dune fields compare to the risk of taking a longer but safer route, giving the wheels more time to fail? Or is dune travel slow enough that it's always more risky?

Me - Hey! Stu!... looks like I caught a fish for dinner...
Stu - This surely deserves a sonet! Let me work on it!
...
Stu - Rui! Isn't that a boat?! They've come to rescue us!
Me - Rescue...boat...us...(processing information...)...
My friend...Who are we, Mankind, but the rescue, the boat, the sea, the Onward?...

And then we would battle ourserlves to death with coconuts...

---

Fran, a pleasure to have you around! Your blog's last entry about Opportunity is, for sure, one of the most elucidative I've read since the beggining of the mission! I'll keep an eye on your work waiting for the one you've promised about Spirit...

Incredible to see all those brains working...I really like Geert's approach, don't know if it is feasible, but surely would bring Oppy to a point that, with no additional mechanical problem, would take her even further, and faster, away...

David, I love those maps too...
If, in the future, you think about coming to Portugal I would suggest you to visit the Jerónimos and to take some time and thoughts in front of Vasco da Gama's tomb...closing your eyes, I am sure you'll be able to listen to the waves...

A little route from me..
There is this small, but prehaps pretty deep cater half way that I think we should see..
The crater next to it is much more shallow.. ("non deep"). I asume this is a matter of age ?

than drive on to the big one..
and there is that crater in the rim (is it so smooth, because water flowed in ??)
that.. if we reach it.. could be very useful to examine.. it has about the same size as Vicotria, but because of the location -in the rim-
seems very different ..

if 'something' indeed flowed into the crater(s) there.. there will be many great things to discover there (too)..

OOoh it has already been such a great journey.. and it will continue !

From now on.. I sit back and enjoy every ride ... It is like an early Sinterklaas .. an early december

Thanks !

You are correct in saying that the original HiRISE image has the maximum content of information, but I do not think that laying down the path precisely to the single ripple crossing makes much sense. Very likely along our way science might find some interesting targets. Maybe Pancams will show that crossing the ripple at a different location is more advantageous. HiRISE, for the great tool it is (it is an amazing tool!) does not reliably provide information on the details the drivers need for each individual drive. Since we have seen that there are areas where we can drive more easily and areas where it is more difficult, this map will give us a general idea of where the potentially dangerous terrain is and maybe where the faster terrain to traverse is. When we planned the drive down from Endurance we really did not have all the details laid out. This was partly due to the fact that at that time we only had MOC imagery, but mostly because it is extremely expensive to define the minute details and very likely those details will need to be changed to accommodate contingencies.

We will definitely use the full-res images for mid- and near-term planning, but at this time we need to have a general idea of how to get to our destination.



I'm fully aware that we are there for science, not driving. I respect that and am glad we are there for this reason but from what Steve Squyres told me, the cobbles are randomly scattered, nor I heard from him to differentiate between isolated cobbles and clusters. I'm not disputing your statement (I don't have any competence in this matter) and will leave the science to the science people. If they will indicate that they want to go to specific locations along the path we will take notice, see if the science targets are reachable and advise them if they are not. So far I have not received any indication of specific targets. This does not mean we will not get indications, simply I have not received any so far.

So for the time being my problem still is "find the quickest and safest path to Endeavour".

Paolo

Completely agree. And perhaps we could even "simplify" this process by assuming a fixed direction (NNW - SSE) for the ripples because we are talking of a small area (tens of Kms) when comparing to oceanic proportions.

Please, don't waste any time looking at the "path" I posted earlier here.
I specifically said this was a late night game of avoiding the dots (or big concentrations of them), the line was drawn in 10 sec !
My apologies, I thought the tone and copious use of smilies made the (lack of) seriousness of the post clear.

Please go on working on making sure Oppy is safe during her trip to Ithaca, kicking some Laestrygon b..tt on the way.

The BBC website has a news article about the trek to Endeavour:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7630617.stm

This seemed to be largely based upon the JPL press release. However it did contain a statement that I had not read before:

"The rover will stop to study rocks on the way, and in winter months it cannot move because there is not enough sunlight to provide sufficient power for driving."

I had thought that because Oppy is frequently cleaned by the wind and because Oppy is much nearer to the equator than Spirit that Oppy would have no problem in driving during the Winter.

Yup - the BBC are overstating there. Being equatorial, and clean, Oppy doesn't suffer anything like the trouble Spirit does.

Doug

Plus we could quite already be there by next Mars winter.

This is great news. The trip to Victoria was the most exciting space journey I ever witnessed. This one will be just as exciting.

With apologies to Mr Shakespeare and, of course, our very own poet laureate:

A Sonnet for Opportunity

Alight on Mars and now work your thoughts: feast
The mind's eye on the edge of Victoria.
See our heroine now looking southeast
Eyes focussed on this brave new endeavour.
As thin air tugs sand-blasted mast, behold!
Wheels turn, powered by Phoebus' distant light
And with steady grip, this valiant soul,
Now roves to take on the furrow'd sight
That stretches before: the constant billows
Of the endless, immutable, sand-sea
Whose lofty, rusted surge in past days
Became a near-fatal purgatory.
So wish her luck with this dangerous quest
And should failure await, think on her best.

Andy

I wonder in which way the HIRISE folk could help by processing these huge images for better visualization and understanding of possible paths. Run they any special software to create enhanced reliefs from the images?

Well - shape from shading with ISIS would work to a degree, but to be honest, human judgement is probably best.

Doug

I am pretty sure shape from shading would work, but when I worked on Victoria a student who worked in my group did terrain classification from texture and color and the results were quite impressive. Unfortunately she is now working for Google. Maybe I'm going to ping her and see if I can get ahold of her code. I agree with you that human processing is probably more flexible. I definitely was not planning to just use the map and let Opportunity blindly drive through. MANY eyes will look over HiRISE, PANCAMs and NAVCAMs.

Paolo

I am encouraged to hear Oppy won't be commanded to drive blindly !!!!!

Too late. Your route has already been coded, uploaded, and locked into Opportunity's navigation program. Off we go and good luck!

Ok, it is great fun to make route maps, but obviously not what Paolo needs, as he said so well.

What´s needed is an overview map, with ripple type areas clearly delineated. I still didn´t see a better suggestion, IMHO, than the one I posted earlier in the thread and which I copy here below.

Sorry for the impertinence, but I think we should focus on what Paolo is asking for and not go out in a lot of fascinating but not really relevant tangents, with poetry, specific route maps, etc.

This is the first time we´re getting a request from the rover team for actual help. We got it because the cumulative talents at UMSF are very impressive. But let´s focus those talents on the job at hand!

I´ve highlighted our MISSION STATEMENT, as set out by Paolo, in bold:



No route but a visual classification of surface and ripple type areas.

It might help to have a collection of example HIRISE images of the terrain that has already been driven over, with an indication of how easy or difficult it was to traverse. The indication could either be subjective (coming from the rover driver), or a measure of the number of meters covered in that drive. This could be used as a guide in analyzing the new terrain.

Phil already did that.

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...st&p=126432

Someone asked about a comparison of LeMonnier and Endeavour - 'which was the largest crater explored by a rover?'

Here's a side by side comparison from Map-A-Planet - you can have endless fun playing with that website. The scale is almost the same. The grids are 1 degree for the Moon and 0.5 degree for Mars, both about 30 km per grid space, to provide scale. LeMonnier is twice the diameter of Endeavour, at least, and much more dramatic.

Phil

Click to view attachment

How's LeMonnier compare to Gustav?

Gusev! I'll let someone else do this.

Phil

Hurricane Gustav?
(sorry, I couldn't resist)

Now seriously and back to the main topic:

Sorry to be pedantic but I still believe this task must be automated in some way.

I think it’s already clear that what’s needed is a map that characterizes the terrain in terms already known like tarmac, “purgatory”, bedrock, small ripples. This map should also be of a lower resolution than the HiRISE pictures; or in other words, it should reduce an e.g. 100x100 pixels area to a single characterized point, otherwise it looses its purpose which is to allow mid and long-range route planning.

One way to do this task is to slice the big picture in 100x100pix. pieces and to manually compare them with a set of pre-selected types of terrain. Needless to say that such a task would be time consuming and in case it was shared among a number of volunteers the results wouldn’t be homogeneous. What would be classified as “purgatory like” by one might be characterized as “small ripples” by another one.

Another way to do this task could be again to slice the big picture in 100x100pix. pieces and to automatically characterize them.
It was already proposed to use the wavelength of the dunes as an indicator so the mean wavelength of each 100x100 piece could be compared with the mean wavelengths of the reference pieces (tarmac, purgatory, etc.). The mean wavelength could be calculated, probably using FFT, and I think some of the HiRISE images (e.g. the one I use in the route map) have enough dynamic range and S/N ratio to be used for this purpose, but we need someone with experience on this area (I haven’t).

I think it’s worth a try.

Well just to update you on my progress (less than I hoped as I have a lot on at the moment). I'm now able to load chunks of the JP2 into a C++ program and am going to attempt to get it to recognize different ripple sizes, probably with some sort of Fourier analysis.

No promises though, it maybe too hard given for very limited amount of time I have to work on this.

The Mars Express images by ESA are sometimes great in detail..
and I have seen some images made as in "fly over"

Did Mars Express photograph and "3d" the Opportunity area it is currently located..
Or can it do so soon ?