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JohnVV
QUOTE (Webscientist @ Sep 19 2015, 05:06 PM) *
MP4 recording was not ideal. The quality of each png file is of course better. I will try avi, next time.
MP4 recording took about 7 hours with my computer:lol: then wmv... How long would it take for png's?
Thanks for the feed back and the advice John!


without making a huge long post
i have found that using ogv format , though BIG -- no compression , works best and is GPL .

then for uploading it , transcode to mkv to upload to youtube or to vimo

just your normal every day things

i am not sure what software you are using , i use Blender and the engine in Celestia for videos

Also a bit unsure on the software you use to make the heightmap or mesh ( some software outputs a *.ply )
from the video your heightmap looks a bit off
-- they ALL!! will from only using one image and sfs - fact of life
this is what i get from the Aug 25 image "PIA19631"
-- a 8 bit copy of the 32 bit float
Click to view attachment

Webscientist
QUOTE (JohnVV @ Sep 20 2015, 05:54 AM) *
without making a huge long post
i have found that using ogv format , though BIG -- no compression , works best and is GPL .

then for uploading it , transcode to mkv to upload to youtube or to vimo

just your normal every day things

i am not sure what software you are using , i use Blender and the engine in Celestia for videos

Also a bit unsure on the software you use to make the heightmap or mesh ( some software outputs a *.ply )
from the video your heightmap looks a bit off
-- they ALL!! will from only using one image and sfs - fact of life
this is what i get from the Aug 25 image "PIA19631"
-- a 8 bit copy of the 32 bit float
Click to view attachment


Ok!
I use Blender for the topography (displace modifier) and I may need more vertices for a more "precise" rendering of the terrain.
Regarding the heightmap, there is the "arbitrary touch" I admit.
The shadow portion of the conical mountain is not well rendered due to the nature of the Shape From Shading Technique.
I've never used Celestia for a flyover animation. I may try in the future.
Ken2
It’s been a little slow on the Dawn page so I figured I’d finally make my Occator impact visualization I’ve been campaigning for since the early days.

Hypothesis: binary low angle impact with secondaries (and even a tertiary) – see figures:

1. Fig 1: Green is the bigger crater – even though it’s a low angle impact - it’s not elongated much because it hits the side of the central Occator peak. From the dashed green impact trajectory line – it just misses a hill and hits the broadside of the central peak. It looks like a normal crater "splat" signature to me - that has been sitting for awhile and all the expected white (ice) broader curtain dusting has had time to sublimate and darken and only the large deposits remain. The asymmetrical pattern is consistent with hitting a side of a mountain and unevenly spreading out between various bumps in the uneven terrain there.

2. Secondaries trajectories (dashed green triangle region) and impacts at hill tops are all consistent with this impact trajectory and the likely long distance secondary (spotted by someone months ago here) down range of it (see second figure) fits nicely in this range. The spread of secondaries means it is much less likely these are primary body impacts.

Also the fact that the main body hit the peak, means it is not a stretch that pieces of the central peak/ or impact body flung out causing large secondaries in a focused region high areas (hill tops) down range in the impact direction.


3. Fig 1: Crater #2 – light orange. Since it’s trajectory missed the central peak – it hit further down range and since it was a low angle impact it made a characteristic trench (with widening black rim shadows visible) and weak crater at the end (see MARs crater example Fig 3). The less intense white debris excavated along the trench and a weak low velocity crater IMO seems to be the cleanest match for this signature.


Of course I may be completely wrong and it may turn out be an ice volcano - but I think it is very unlikely on an 99%+ impact dominated world and it doesn't explain the secondaries and smaller crater.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
ZLD
Processed enlargement of HAMO 20.



This is a a close stereo view paired with HAMO 19. Haven't tried to align them yet however. Is there some extra importance to this location I'm missing that would make this a priority stereo imaging location or was it just an opportunity?

-----

Imaging map

ZLD
Processed enlargement of HAMO 21:



This is in a very similar location to the last two images. I had a mosaic made up then PSP crashed as I was saving. I'll see if I can remake it this afternoon.

-----

Imaging location map:

bsharp
QUOTE (ZLD @ Sep 22 2015, 07:48 PM) *
This is in a very similar location to the last two images. I had a mosaic made up then PSP crashed as I was saving. I'll see if I can remake it this afternoon.


Pity, looking forward to that. This is one of the most photographed areas indeed. SO31 (http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA19600) also provides good context. The "snake" (bottom right) seems to prolong further and follow a similar direction as other features.
Bill Harris
This area is a small sliver crustal plate left over between, the impacts of Urvara and Yalode at longitudes 270 to 300 deg and the unnamed impacts to the south. Even though it is fractured and shattered it is still holding it's own as a highland area with a relief of 5-6000 meter above the datum. I think they are studying it because the grazing incidence of the sunlight exaggerates the appearance of the relief.

We'll see what comes of it.

--Bill
ZLD
Processed enlargement of HAMO 22:



This image focuses on the same region as the previous 3 releases.



Here is a 4 frame mosaic with includes the latest release:





Imaging location map:



I had a large error in the placement of HAMO 20 that has been corrected int his map. I don't think its quite correct still but close enough.
bsharp
QUOTE (ZLD @ Sep 23 2015, 09:09 PM) *
Here is a 4 frame mosaic with includes the latest release:


Nice job! As Bill says, there are funky effects from the lightning. This feature stands out a little, plenty of deformed microcraters? Pits? What's going on?

Click to view attachment

It's at the bottom right of HAMO20 or center right in the mosaic
charborob
Cluster of secondaries?
ZLD
That's kinda what I would imagine from something small, breaking up after hitting the roche limit at a somewhat low relative speed and making a short decent before impacting.
JohnVV
Dawn HAMO Image 24
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA19902.jpg

and a few renders at a low altitude
-- textured, then shaded mesh
nprev
Love your renderings, John. Extremely useful.
dvandorn
Agreed -- they show exactly how thick some of these draping units actually are, especially where they pile up against the underlying terrain. In the right-most image, in particular, that ridge looks like it could rise up 500 meters or more above the surface it overlays.

-the other Doug
JohnVV
you do need to be a bit careful on heights
the process i use removes all REAL height info but i end up with RELATIVE heights ( mostly)

if something looks to be twice as tall as something else, it likely is about twice as tall BUT not 500M taller


i can make BAD looking height maps with some what accurate height info ( dose NOT render well and " looks like c??p" )
or
a GOOD looking heightmap but with only relative height information
JohnVV
Dawn HAMO Image 25
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images...tml?id=PIA19903

and a few low angle images


here is a link to the 16 bit heightmap i used
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6ZYAd08tZ...iew?usp=sharing

JUST the 16 bit map and a README ( with short instructions)
Click to view attachment
this is a 2 meg tif image
VS. a 110 meg mesh
or a 150 meg .blend file



djellison
What are you using to do the SFS?
JohnVV
for the sfs
i do not have a license for Matlab so i can not use "SIRFS_release1.5"
but
there is a old "Carlotto.m" but that needs to be ran through ISIS3's "dstripe" TWICE and a highpass ran on it
Click to view attachment
i mix that output with the Mini_sfs ( minimization) code from the paper

"Derivation of surface topography and terrain parameters from single satellite image using shape-from-shading technique"."

i would be using the sfs in the NGT's "PhotometryTK" but i am having a boost and python issue with stereopipeline and Vision Workbench and a isis3 SEG fault in PhotometryTK

-- " fun" coding issues "ha ha ha ... "
JohnVV
Dawn HAMO Image 26
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images...tml?id=PIA19904

low angle set of images ( 1920x1080 )




a really neat looking hex crater
ZLD
Four updates here.

Processed enlargement of HAMO 23:




Processed enlargement of HAMO 24:




Processed enlargement of HAMO 25:




Processed enlargement of HAMO 26:




-----

I probably won't have time to update the imaging map until this weekend at the earliest.
Bill Harris
New Mapping images today:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/keywords/dp


QUOTE
I probably won't have time to update the imaging map until this weekend


Good luck. I still haven't found the loc of HO-23 yet, I suspect it is in the distorted N or S Polar areas and nothing in the SO imagery has popped out.

HO-24 overlaps HO-8.

HO-25 is NE of Toharu (ref: SO-12,15,32) and HO-26 is Fejokoo (ref: SO-10,19).

--Bill
ZLD
H23 is in the same location as H19, H20, H21 and H22. You can see the very prominent central peak from H23 very well in H20. H24 is a secondary capture of the same region in H8. H25 is a secondary capture of the region in H6. H26 I haven't yet had the time to location.Probably in the region around Toharu in the south. H26 is Fejokoo.
Bill Harris
Yep, HO-26 is south of Urvara in the general HO-20-21-22-23 area, but on the south polar terminator line and way distorted on a cylindrical projection. Indexed on SO-10 and -19.

--Bill
antipode
Putting this here seemed more logical than revisiting a very old thread.

From JGR: Planets

Thermal stability of ice on Ceres with rough topography
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015JE004887/full

Even the abstract is an interesting little read

P

Bill Harris
Good paper. I believe that we will find that the tectonic framework of Ceres may be dependent on damp silicate crustal plates riding on somewhat drier lower-crustal/upper-mantle units with moister hydrothermal activity poking through that. At least, so goes my initial read on the compositional and topo data seen by peeking over the shoulders of others.

--Bill
alan
Occator Topography

and a false color map of Ceres
JohnVV
HAMO 27 image rendered at a low angle
-- 8 bit copy of the heightmap




JohnVV
HAMO 28
-- rendered at a low angle
with the solar angle so low this makes making a heightmap and rendering a bit harder




JohnVV
HAMO 29 has what looks to me as a disk read/write error
but............... one never knows
Click to view attachment
some close ups of the odd part of the image


could be a landslide ?
ZLD
QUOTE
disk read/write error


Could you point out what you see as an error? To me, this looks relatively unchanged from previous views of this area.
Gladstoner
The 'read/write error' ( smile.gif ) looks like a crater rim slump that 'bit off' more than usual. There may have been a pre-existing weakness along that straight line.
Bill Harris
I don't understand, either.

The previous view was HO-5, but this pass has that peculiar crater more centered in the frame and is not a Nadir shot, so the perspective is different. I don't see structural changes between HO-5 and HO-29.

The feature is looking more like an evolving caldera and less like an impact crater.

And these polygonal crater have caught the attention of the Dawn team:
"The irregular shapes of craters on Ceres are especially interesting..." said Carol Raymond, Dawn's deputy principal investigator. "They are very different from the bowl-shaped craters on Vesta."
Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-10-dawn-team-ins...-ceres.html#jCp

--Bill
Ken2
QUOTE (Ken2 @ Sep 21 2015, 04:09 PM) *
It’s been a little slow on the Dawn page so I figured I’d finally make my Occator impact visualization I’ve been campaigning for since the early days.

Hypothesis: binary low angle impact with secondaries (and even a tertiary) – see figures:

1. Fig 1: Green is the bigger crater – even though it’s a low angle impact - it’s not elongated much because it hits the side of the central Occator peak. From the dashed green impact trajectory line – it just misses a hill and hits the broadside of the central peak. It looks like a normal crater "splat" signature to me - that has been sitting for awhile and all the expected white (ice) broader curtain dusting has had time to sublimate and darken and only the large deposits remain. The asymmetrical pattern is consistent with hitting a side of a mountain and unevenly spreading out between various bumps in the uneven terrain there.

2. Secondaries trajectories (dashed green triangle region) and impacts at hill tops are all consistent with this impact trajectory and the likely long distance secondary (spotted by someone months ago here) down range of it (see second figure) fits nicely in this range. The spread of secondaries means it is much less likely these are primary body impacts.

Also the fact that the main body hit the peak, means it is not a stretch that pieces of the central peak/ or impact body flung out causing large secondaries in a focused region high areas (hill tops) down range in the impact direction.


3. Fig 1: Crater #2 – light orange. Since it’s trajectory missed the central peak – it hit further down range and since it was a low angle impact it made a characteristic trench (with widening black rim shadows visible) and weak crater at the end (see MARs crater example Fig 3). The less intense white debris excavated along the trench and a weak low velocity crater IMO seems to be the cleanest match for this signature.


Of course I may be completely wrong and it may turn out be an ice volcano - but I think it is very unlikely on an 99%+ impact dominated world and it doesn't explain the secondaries and smaller crater.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment



The color map recently released adds weight to the Occator shallow impact hypothesis.

Click to view attachment
Bill Harris
I'm having a look at the many polygonal craters we see on Ceres. What sort of analytic techniques are used nowadays? The usual technique I'm used to is "rose" or "rosette" diagrams for looking at the orientations of the walls (facets). Along with other linear features, such as lineations, floor-fill fractures and the odd linear central peak we see.

What is a good current (and maybe free) plotting software for the rose diagrams? Years ago we used ISM, "Interactive Surface Modeling", an ESRI product, but it was a big server-hosted program.

And do we know of current "polygonal crater" references? The recent work appears to be solely by "T Öhman, et al", and of course the classic work is by Baldwin, et al.

--Bill
ZLD
Processed enlargement of HAMO 27:



Processed enlargement of HAMO 28:



Processed enlargement of HAMO 29:



Processed enlargement of HAMO 30:



Processed enlargement of HAMO 31:



Imaging location map:



Oxo morph from HAMO 5 --> HAMO29:

(click to animate)
Bill Harris
Caldera named Oxo crater:

https://univ.smugmug.com/Dawn-Mission/Ceres...ntage-annot.png

What a strange world.

--Bill
ZLD
Thats continued to be my impression as well Bill. If you watch the animation I posted above, I think the crater is much deeper than would be initially apparent.


Here is a rough outline of the central pit I see:

Click to view attachment


Would still really like to see Haulani in HAMO. Instead we keep getting the same areas filled in which is great but they are also relatively benign as far as what makes Ceres unique.
Bill Harris
I did some name-updating to my index map and this feature has been named Oxo.

I'd love to see a HAMO of Haulani also, but I suspect that it-- and a couple of other areas-- are so jaw-dropping that they are holding some areas back for Major Announcements. You have to wear a PT Barnum hat in planetary science sometimes. Spot5/Occator and Tall Mtn had to go public, they got a lot of Press.

But nevernomind. We've gotten spectacular crumbs.

--Bill

alan
Something volatile below the surface that started vaporizing when the impact removed most of its cover?

ETA: the white patches near the lower right corner of the scarp, could they be left by brine flowing from the base of the cliff?
Habukaz
Not only Haulani, but Dantu as well. smile.gif It has some interesting patterns of the bright stuff.
ZLD
Spectacular crumbs indeed. I guess I'm jaded by the strong desire of the New Horizons team to frequently and excitedly share results. Does anyone know of a PDF of a 'Dawn Data Management Plan' for the Ceres phase? Can't seem to find a release schedule anywhere.
Bill Harris
In the 1960's one Big debate was the Impact or Volcanic origin of Lunar craters. As it turned out, many--if not most-- craters are impact craters. This is an old debate, but what we are seeing here may be a link to the non-impact origin of some--if not many-- of these features. But still, there is strong evidence for a volcanic origin of many craters or calderas. And/or volcanism as a secondary modifier of impact craters. Read up on "polygonal craters" and "polygonal calderas". Read up also on the Lunar crater Alphonsus-- the poster-child of the impact-caldera debate.

My thoughts are that the light-toned material is related to zones of hydrothermally-deposited salt which underlies a dark rocky regolith and is exposed by some impacts, anf the shocks of the impact may reactivate the hot-water plumbing. Some regions-- like Occator, Oxo, Haulani and Dantu-- have active zones of hydrothermal vents where the salts are being actively deposited.

The HAMO phase is giving us a good idea of where to look next and the LAMO phase will let us sort out all the chicken feet from the duck feet on our tabletop of Puzzle Pieces.

--Bill



ps--
HO-32 is Toharu, SO-12, 15 and HO-7
--b
ZLD
Responding to myself here:

The Ceres data release schedule is half that at Vesta. Three months after the end of Survey Orbit, there's supposed to be an EDR release. That should take place at the end of this month or early next if that is still the case.

Relevant table:
Click to view attachment

This was buried in the Spring book overview of the mission. Link
stevesliva
QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 7 2015, 02:21 PM) *
In the 1960's one Big debate was the Impact or Volcanic origin of Lunar craters. As it turned out, many--if not most-- craters are impact craters.


Semantically, has "crater" taken on a meaning as nonvolcanic while "caldera" or (patera) is used for volcanic? Seems like as soon as a non-impact origin is considered, people start using terms other than crater.
ZLD
The central pit of a volcano is still a form of crater but for clarity, it may be better to differentiate with terms when possible, especially when discussing bodies heavily covered with impact craters. In general use, the term 'crater' has been relegated to mean impact crater I think.
Bill Harris
'Tis a semantic quagmire. Or can be.

I _tend_ to think in terms of crater/impact crater and caldera/volcanic crater. "Crater" ("cup" in Latin) does have the context of being an impact structure. "Caldera" ("cooking pot" in Spanish) has the context of being volcanic. In context I tend to lapse into talking about volcanic craters and sometimes just craters when the context is clear.

And to further confuse things, we have maar structures, which are a bowl-shape caused by a different kaboom.

Oy.

--Bill

ZLD
Processed enlargement of HAMO 32:




Imaging location map:

ngunn
Thanks for posting these so regularly. I have one small suggestion. Could the new addition be highlighted in some way on the location map, perhaps in a different colour? With so many on there now, often overlapping, it's getting harder to find the new one each time.
Bill Harris
I've finally re-reviewed and posted the Preliminary Geomorphology of Occator crater.

This is the preliminary assessment of the geological conditions of Occator crater showing the crater rim and mass-wasting processes, the floor and volcanic flows and the hydrothermal vents and deposits. All. of course, subject to revision and rethinking.

https://univ.smugmug.com/Dawn-Mission/Ceres...phology--v1.png

--Bill
ZLD
@ngunn: Glad people are getting use from the map. I'll highlight the new additions in yellow starting today; good idea!. For past ones, you could load up the previous map in one tab and the new map in another tab and switch back and forth and the new addition(s) will be blinking.
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