Unmanned Spaceflight.com > Victoria ahead...

MarkL

Sep 10 2006, 03:58 AM

QUOTE (Stu @ Sep 9 2006, 07:44 PM)

Yeah, you're right... Victoria's not going to give up her, um, secrets easily...

Seriously tho, don't you think that if that big feature on the horizon was Sofi's rim it would be a bit of a blow? Surely it would mean no tall outcrops or walls would be visible over there?

What fascinates me particularly is the possibility of actually catching something falling away from the edge and tumbling or, more likely, sliding down into the crater. Wouldn't that be something?

I'm pretty sure it's not Sofi's rim. The horizon should be on the order of 3 km away.

Stu

Sep 10 2006, 08:03 AM

Had a go at the new Pancams...

Click to view attachment

Phil Stooke

Sep 10 2006, 02:06 PM

bmoscovi suggested: "How about using a free GIS system like GRASS. It is available for Linux, Mac, and Windows."

Thanks... though it's the GIS environment I'm trying to get out of. All I need is a routine that warps an image from one geometry to another by means of a set of common control points and a spatial interpolation procedure... ptreferably several choices of interpolation procedure. PCI gives me that, especially in its older forms. The newest version from PCI requires all the crap I'm trying to avoid, setting up a project, adding elevation data at each point and so on... just complications. I'll look at GRASS to see if it avoids that.

But thanks for suggesting it.

Phil

tty

Sep 10 2006, 04:27 PM

QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Sep 9 2006, 10:35 PM)

Two polars from mhoward's recent sol 931 posting...

Notice the distinctly polygonal crater shape that is visible in the upper polar. This is a fairly common phenomenon, but I don't think we have seen such a clear case in the MER imagery before. It is thought to be related to preexisting fracture patterns in the target rock (e. g. www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2006/pdf/1236.pdf)

tty

dilo

Sep 10 2006, 08:12 PM

Probably is too late but, in order to simulate what we will see within few days (hours?), I made my personal attempt to make a decent orbital picture of VC by merging different images. Basically I used the super-defined PIA08447 (or S1100471 MOC C-PROTO) with some parts of R2200640, in order to slightly extend visualization toward South and East and substitute parts covered by captions...
Click to view attachment
I didn't removed the light reticle but is not so dusturbing and can be useful (in reality, is too complicate to remove it manually!).
My final purpose was to use it as a texture on the elevation map from ant103, but I encountered some issues and I abandoned the objective...

(isn't worth to do now because realitity will be soon more interesting!

).

bmoskovi

Sep 11 2006, 05:07 AM

QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Sep 10 2006, 07:06 AM)

bmoscovi suggested: "How about using a free GIS system like GRASS. It is available for Linux, Mac, and Windows."

Thanks... though it's the GIS environment I'm trying to get out of. All I need is a routine that warps an image from one geometry to another by means of a set of common control points and a spatial interpolation procedure... ptreferably several choices of interpolation procedure. PCI gives me that, especially in its older forms. The newest version from PCI requires all the crap I'm trying to avoid, setting up a project, adding elevation data at each point and so on... just complications. I'll look at GRASS to see if it avoids that.

But thanks for suggesting it.

Phil

You might like to take a look at GDAL http://gdal.org. It is a translator library for raster geospatial data formats. It supports about 60 raster formats (http://gdal.org/formats_list.html) and it has several commandline utilities (http://gdal.org/gdal_utilities.html) that you might find interesting. For instance, gdalwarp is a "...simple image reprojection and warping utility. The program can reproject to any support projection, and can also apply GCPs stored with the image if the image is "raw" with control information."

Btw, GDAL understand PCI file formats. A companion library OGR is a vector based translator that understands 26 vector file formats (http://gdal.org/ogr/ogr_formats.html).

MarkL

Sep 11 2006, 05:58 AM

QUOTE (dilo @ Sep 10 2006, 08:12 PM)

Probably is too late but, in order to simulate what we will see within few days (hours?), I made my personal attempt to make a decent orbital picture of VC by merging different images.
Click to view attachment

I think that was well worth it Marco. It's nice to look at a clean image. I was looking again at the part of the rim nearest oppy. There is a part of it which looks a bit more like a classic crater rim than any of the rest of the crumbled edge. Have a peek at the attached.

Click to view attachment

kenny

Sep 11 2006, 07:20 AM

un-needed quote with un-needed quoted image removed.

Nice pic. Regarding the "Vestigal Rim", the original rim of the crater was surely inside (closer to the crater centre) of those parts of the current rim that are closest to the centre - not far out like the area marked as "Vestigal Rim". In other words, the orginal crater circumference has to sit INSIDE the innermost promontory of the current ragged rim. "Vestigal Rim" is perhaps just coincidentally arcuate in shape and mimics a rim.

Kenny

Stu

Sep 11 2006, 08:11 AM

Hmmm, nice rocks over there Oppy... no need to go take a look tho, much better stuff up ahead...

Click to view attachment

Aberdeenastro

Sep 11 2006, 08:16 AM

Looks like tosol (936) is a driving day. Not sure how far though. Activity includes pancams of a target called Cape Faraday.

Castor

Sol Seq.Ver ETH ESF EDN EFF ERP Tot Description
--- -------- --- --- --- --- --- ---- -----------
936 p1151.04 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
936 p1154.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_hazcam_idd_unstow_doc
936 p1205.08 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_haz_penultimate_0.5_bpp_pri17
936 p1214.05 0 0 0 0 0 0 front_haz_ultimate_4bpp_pri15
936 p1305.07 0 0 0 0 0 0 rear_haz_penultimate_0.5bpp_pri17
936 p1311.07 0 0 0 0 0 0 rear_haz_ultimate_1_bpp_crit15
936 p2111.05 0 0 0 0 0 0 pancam_cal_targ_L234567Rall
936 p2577.16 0 0 0 0 0 0 pancam_cape_faraday_L234567Rall
936 p2600.09 0 0 0 0 0 0 pancam_tau
936 p2600.09 0 0 0 0 0 0 pancam_tau
936 Total 0 0 0 0 0 0

Edit: Sorry - I see dot.dk has already posted this. It's a Monday morning and it's taking me a while to plough through all the weekend's posts.

Stu

Sep 11 2006, 10:00 AM

Interesting post on Whatonmars.com...

... but where is the animation itself??

Denmike

Sep 11 2006, 12:06 PM

Here you go:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/mult...a-20060908.html

Thanks to Google !

Sunspot

Sep 11 2006, 12:23 PM

Whats scientifically interesting about this small crater we are parked at? We've been here longer than at Beagle Crater I think - which was much more impressive.

paxdan

Sep 11 2006, 12:39 PM

It is a window into Victoria's ejecta blanket.

Plus i think we're in restricted sols at the moment.

paxdan

Sep 11 2006, 12:42 PM

QUOTE (Denmike @ Sep 11 2006, 01:06 PM)

Here you go:

Welcome Denmike, kudos on your first post, not only is it informative but also comes more than a year after you registered.

djellison

Sep 11 2006, 12:48 PM

We're in restricted sols, we had a drive fault, and we have limited uplink opportunities because of DSN congestion.

What I don't understand is why that video was under the MRO section.

Anyhooo - it shows that the Northern and North-Western rims is actually quite steep - but the southern approaches, particularly the South Eastern side look a lot more appropriate and driveable.

Doug

Gray

Sep 11 2006, 01:29 PM

MarkL,
Thanks for posting that segment of Marco's image. The gentle slope of that part of the rim reveals a tantalizing bit of stratigraphy. Note that there is a sharp boundary between the light colored upper layer and a darker middle layer. There is boundary with a third and even darker layer which roughly coincides with the right edge of your ellipse. The same sequence can be seent in other reentrants around the crater.

Wouldn't it be neat if the upper layer was the evaporite, the middle layer the cross-bedded basalt sands and the lower darker unit a layer of basalt. (The one that Bill Harris has hoped we'll see). Probably the darker unit is the feather edge of the dunes at the bottome of the crater, but as long as I'm speculating, I might as well wear my basalt tinted glasses.

ustrax

Sep 11 2006, 04:19 PM

One image down:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...23P2381L5M1.JPG

Looks like it's not going to be today yet...

diane

Sep 11 2006, 04:55 PM

Daylight is only beginning for this sol, so I wouldn't assume too much yet. Not sure why a single image would be sent early in the morning, though.

climber

Sep 11 2006, 05:05 PM

If I red previous posts correctly, driving was yestersol sol 935 (a sunday!) since we are early 8.30 am right now as I write on sol 936

fredk

Sep 11 2006, 05:17 PM

That image, ustrax, was from yestersol, sol 935. The drive is planned for sol 936. It's still just morning of sol936, so we shouldn't expect the new images down for at least 12 hours or so.

mhoward

Sep 11 2006, 07:54 PM

Pancam false-color view of part of "Emma Dean" from Sol 934:

(Note to MMB users: These false color images probably won't show up properly in MMB for awhile, or maybe not at all untill I release a new version. Sorry, but the current version of MMB just doesn't like it when they let the rover motion counter in the filename exceed the maximum allowable value (all those ##'s or __'s in the filenames). I'm slowly (very slowly) working on fixing it.)

Stu

Sep 11 2006, 10:00 PM

So the crater detail in my Post #109 is of "Emma Dean"? Thanks, I was wondering.

Stu

Sep 11 2006, 10:08 PM

QUOTE (Denmike @ Sep 11 2006, 12:06 PM)

Here you go:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/mult...a-20060908.html

Thanks to Google !

No, thanks to YOU Denmike (and welcome to posting, by the way!). That's a superb animation (well worth the 50min download on dial-up!!!) and I recommend it to everyone. VC now seems a lot more like a real place to me... even tho my cereal-bowl-with-modelling-clay-around-the-edge still sits proudly on top of my kitchen cabinet over there... wow, what a long time ago THAT was...!

alan

Sep 11 2006, 10:52 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Sep 11 2006, 02:54 PM)

(Note to MMB users: These false color images probably won't show up properly in MMB for awhile, or maybe not at all untill I release a new version. Sorry, but the current version of MMB just doesn't like it when they let the rover motion counter in the filename exceed the maximum allowable value (all those ##'s or __'s in the filenames). I'm slowly (very slowly) working on fixing it.)

I deleted the ones with __ in the file name and had MMB regenerate the images for the day (Update -> Regenerate images -> Select sol 934 -> Force generate images ) Images came out fine.

MarkL

Sep 12 2006, 01:04 AM

QUOTE (kenny @ Sep 11 2006, 07:20 AM)

un-needed quote with un-needed quoted image removed.

Nice pic. Regarding the "Vestigal Rim", the original rim of the crater was surely inside (closer to the crater centre) of those parts of the current rim that are closest to the centre - not far out like the area marked as "Vestigal Rim". In other words, the orginal crater circumference has to sit INSIDE the innermost promontory of the current ragged rim. "Vestigal Rim" is perhaps just coincidentally arcuate in shape and mimics a rim.

Kenny

You may well be right Kenny. I was just considering the possibility that the crater had been filled in and the filling has since eroded away, but not yet quite back to the original rim. It does seem far fetched, I know. But Victoria's present rim is so bizarre I find it hard to fit it to a typical crater morphology with a nice sharp, circular, raised rim. If the original rim was inside the present rim, what is eroding now? The rim would have been raised above the surrounding terrain so as it eroded it would have just been worn down until it returned to "ground" level. In this case we have a plain which ends abruptly at the edge of a pit so I wonder how the plain rose up high enough to get to the top of the rim. It's idle speculation for the moment I suppose. Hopefully the photos that come back will clarify what happened.

mhoward

Sep 12 2006, 01:43 AM

QUOTE (alan @ Sep 11 2006, 10:52 PM)

I deleted the ones with __ in the file name and had MMB regenerate the images for the day (Update -> Regenerate images -> Select sol 934 -> Force generate images ) Images came out fine.

Good idea.

jamescanvin

Sep 12 2006, 03:45 AM

Just a small turn in place for tosol then

http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportu...23P1214L0M1.JPG

What the heck are they up to?

James

climber

Sep 12 2006, 05:08 AM

I hope it's because instructions were uploaded before the week-end

dvandorn

Sep 12 2006, 05:14 AM

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 11 2006, 10:45 PM)

What the heck are they up to?

I would imagine they're moving the IDD workspace into an area of interest for a set of integrations. Either that, or they got another drive fault of some kind.

-the other Doug

Tesheiner

Sep 12 2006, 05:54 AM

The former I would say.
The intention was to do some IDD work during the (last) weekend but due to the driving abort (any hints about the reason?) those observations had to be cancelled, actually postponed (my guess).

I initially thought they would investigate the rock outcrops which can be seen at/inside the rim but I fear that place is not a good option from a solar power perspective.

djellison

Sep 12 2006, 08:23 AM

I've changed the sub-heading of this thread to 'time spent at Emma Dean' - and closed the old Vic thread. It was very confusing to have the two running concurently. Once we leave Emma Dean I think we can have the 'First look at Victoria' thread etc etc

Remember - we have a three edged sword at the moment. Restricted sols, DSN congestion, that drive fault. It's going to take more time than usual to do the science they want to do here - but once it's done (and it will be done, I am sure, as quickly as is possible) we will be on our way again in a very obvious way. Consideration is probably being made at the moment to have the flash comparatively empty read for the arrival at Vic and the ensuing pancam workout

Doug

Sunspot

Sep 12 2006, 08:32 AM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Sep 12 2006, 06:54 AM)

The former I would say.
The intention was to do some IDD work during the (last) weekend but due to the driving abort (any hints about the reason?) those observations had to be cancelled, actually postponed (my guess).

I initially thought they would investigate the rock outcrops which can be seen at/inside the rim but I fear that place is not a good option from a solar power perspective.

Driving faults and other problems eh? ..... I think they're really pushing their luck here. I would drive to the rim of Victoria at the earliest opportunity then at least if something breaks permanently they would be in an interesting spot.

Stu

Sep 12 2006, 09:13 AM

Click to view attachment

Screengrab from previously referred to JPL/USGS Victoria "flyaround" animation...

"You are Here!"

Tesheiner

Sep 12 2006, 09:24 AM

QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 12 2006, 10:23 AM)

Once we leave Emma Dean I think we can have the 'First look at Victoria' thread etc etc

Should it be named "Victoria Ho!" ?

Oersted

Sep 12 2006, 10:39 AM

Or "Oh Victoria!"........

ustrax

Sep 12 2006, 10:50 AM

Now that we are on the verge of reaching Victoria, time to remember the eighteen men, from an original crew of 42, who survived the circumnavigation and brought the vessel safe to Seville:

Juan Sebastian Elcano, from Getaria - Master
Francisco Albo, from Axio - Pilot
Miguel de Rodas - Pilot
Juan de Acurio, from Bermeo - Pilot
Antonio Lombardo (Pigafetta), from Vicenza - Supernumerary
Martín de Judicibus, from Genoa - Chief Steward
Hernándo de Bustamante, from Alcántara - Mariner
Nicholas the Greek, from Naples - Mariner
Miguel Sánchez, from Rhodes - Mariner
Antonio Hernández Colmenero, from Huelva - Mariner
Francisco Rodrigues, Portuguese from Seville - Mariner
Juan Rodríguez, from Huelva - Mariner
Diego Carmena - Mariner
Hans of Aachen - Gunner
Juan de Arratia, from Bilbao - Able Seaman
Vasco Gómez Gallego, from Bayona - Able Seaman
Juan de Santandrés, from Cueto - Apprentice Seaman
Juan de Zubileta, from Barakaldo - Page

For more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Magellan

Stu

Sep 12 2006, 11:04 AM

Excellent list Ustrax, much inspiration there when it comes to naming features in the near future...

Meanwhile, Oppy stubbornly refuses to lift her head and show us the horizon, instead she seems hypnotised by the ground around her. She's seeing LOTS of berries tho...

Click to view attachment

ustrax

Sep 12 2006, 11:06 AM

Good morning Stu...My tought also...

New images are down...Still around Emma Dean...

Stu

Sep 12 2006, 11:08 AM

Hey Ustrax, nice to see you here again

Yep, the "berries" image is "Hot off the press" as it were, I grabbed 3 images off today's Pancam list about ten minutes ago...

ustrax

Sep 12 2006, 11:20 AM

QUOTE (Stu @ Sep 12 2006, 12:08 PM)

Hey Ustrax, nice to see you here again

I'm always around...

Still about naming features...Some time ago I left a list here...There are some outstanding names for features on Mars...Thieves' Island; Phillippines; Island of Good Signs; Valley Without Peril...

:
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...amp;#entry54885

Stu

Sep 12 2006, 11:36 AM

I remember your list very well. I think I added a few ideas of my own, too...

Maybe some of those names will make it to features unofficially when we can finally see over the edge of the crater rim and can see across to the other side. Not sure how features actually get named - unofficially, I mean, as in for discussions here - I think it needs a few of the more senior members to agree on them, but I'd love to see a "Valley Without Peril" and a "Thieves Island" here at Victoria!

Tesheiner

Sep 12 2006, 12:31 PM

Here is a pancam (L2 filter) mosaic of Emma Dean (right) and VC rim (left) made from shots taken on sols 931, 934 and 935.

Click to view attachment

Note: I had to reduce it to 1/3 size, otherwise it was too big to fit on the attachment's size limits.

Bobby

Sep 12 2006, 04:08 PM

WOW. 4 Threads discussing Oppy's arrival at Victoria?
Which one do I choose and which one has the best discussion going on regarding Victoria????

1. Oppy arrival at Victoria will open...
2 months of celebrations...

2. Victoria ahead...
Time spent at Emma Dean

3. Victoria Annulus
Discusions about Victoria's Apron

4. Victoria here we come...
Arrival minus one month and counting...

All I can say now is I hope she gets her 6 wheels rolling soon so we can end the suspence about Victoria and all start celebrating over at Tesheiner's Place

Chmee

Sep 12 2006, 04:16 PM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Sep 12 2006, 06:50 AM)

Now that we are on the verge of reaching Victoria, time to remember the eighteen men, from an original crew of 42, who survived the circumnavigation and brought the vessel safe to Seville:

J

Well, to be more precise, it was 18 men (in one ship) out of ~270 (in 5 ships), who survived and made the circumnavigation on Magellan's voyage. And we thought spaceflight was dangerous?!

I highly recommend the book "Over the Edge of the World: Magellan's Terrifying Circumnavigation of the Globe" by Laurence Bergreen which gives a great account of that journey.

Ustrax, I really like your suggestion of using the names of the 18 survivors of the Victoria for features in the crater. Maybe someone can forward this request to the MER team (hint, hint)?

climber

Sep 12 2006, 04:19 PM

QUOTE (Bobby @ Sep 12 2006, 06:08 PM)

WOW. 4 Threads discussing Oppy's arrival at Victoria?
Which one do I choose and which one has the best discussion going on regarding Victoria????

1. Oppy arrival at Victoria will open...
2 months of celebrations...

2. Victoria ahead...
Time spent at Emma Dean

3. Victoria Annulus
Discusions about Victoria's Apron

4. Victoria here we come...
Arrival minus one month and counting...

All I can say now is I hope she gets her 6 wheels rolling soon so we can end the suspence about Victoria and all start celebrating over at Tesheiner's Place

You forget the most important one Bobby: Pool for arrival at Victoria

So, I don't want to go to Tesheiner's place : his bet is for Sol 960 and I hope that (please be wrong at least THIS TIME, Eduardo, please...) we'll celebrate before

ustrax

Sep 12 2006, 04:40 PM

QUOTE (Chmee @ Sep 12 2006, 05:16 PM)

Well, to be more precise, it was 18 men (in one ship) out of ~270 (in 5 ships), who survived and made the circumnavigation on Magellan's voyage. And we thought spaceflight was dangerous?!

I highly recommend the book "Over the Edge of the World: Magellan's Terrifying Circumnavigation of the Globe" by Laurence Bergreen which gives a great account of that journey.

Ustrax, I really like your suggestion of using the names of the 18 survivors of the Victoria for features in the crater. Maybe someone can forward this request to the MER team (hint, hint)?

Yes, you are correct, I was referring only to the Victoria crew...
Here you can find the other vessels figures, there were 234 men:
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fern%C3%A3o_de_Magalh%C3%A3es

general

Sep 12 2006, 05:04 PM

latest update:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/sta...tml#opportunity

dot.dk

Sep 12 2006, 05:16 PM

Can't believe they are gonna waste precious grinding bits on these rocks here

But tosol (937) another small drive to get to the target it seems.

Toma B

Sep 12 2006, 05:42 PM

WOW!!!
This is just great!!!

QUOTE

Sol 930: This sol consisted of untargeted remote sensing.
Sol 931: Opportunity bumped to a rover arm target at Emma Dean and conducted untargeted remote sensing.
Sol 932: The rover conducted untargeted remote sensing.
Sol 933: Opportunity conducted targeted remote sensing.
Sol 934: Opportunity conducted targeted remote sensing.
Sol 935: Opportunity conducted targeted remote sensing.

No IDD work...
Why don't they just make ONE MORE drive ,park at the rim of that crater and than do some 5 weeks of remote sensing...targeted or not...AAAAAARRGH!!!