djellison
Jan 16 2006, 03:08 PM
I thought it was time, with the Atlas V about to roll out - for a new thread for NH for the launch etc.
Someone asked over at the HZ just how NH can go so fast, this was my reply....
QUOTE
How do you get a spacecraft to Jupiter in under a year? Easy. Make it very very light, and put it on a very very big rocket. The config of Atlas V rocket being used to launch NH (551 - 5m fairing, 5 solids, and one engine on the Centaur stage ) would typically put 8,670kg into GTO or 20,520 into LEO.
New Horizons is 478kg, and it's Star 48B 3rd stage is 2,137kg - so instead of hauling 20 tons, this vehicle is hauling about 2.5 tons thus you get a HUGE velocity out of it. AND, once it's done that, you have the final kick of the 48B, 591 thousand kgs-s (thus accelerating is all a further 3.5 - 4km/s ball park speed, if my maths is right)
At launch - the vehicle is 573,160kg. NH is 0.083% of it.
Imagine the Apollo entry capsule on top of a Saturn V...tiny tiny tiny... that was 5,800 kg on a 3,038,500kg rocket - 0.191% - more than double that percentage of NH. The cutaway's are almost comical, with this tiny gold-clad box on an enormous vehicle.
Basically - it's a LOT of rocket, and not a lot of payload.
For comparison, look how much fuss was made of Stardust that entered so quickly. It took >16 hrs to get from the distance of the moon to Utah. NH makes that journey in 9 hours
One thing the NH mission is not short of, is superlatives. I'm not one for good luck charms (although I'll eat peanuts during a Martian EDL with the best of them), but this mission has been so long in coming, that it deserves every ounce of luck it can have - the best, most accurate launch possible, the cleanest checkout, and incident free cruise to Jupiter.
Goodluck and Godspeed little one, we're with you every step of the way.
Doug
PS - Alan, you're a credit to your field, spending so much time answering questions and writing the PI Perspectives, it's been a hell of a journey!
Toma B
Jan 16 2006, 03:27 PM
imran
Jan 16 2006, 03:28 PM
Yes, Godspeed indeed. The launch will be spectacular and although I will be working tomorrow, I plan on coming home for lunch and watching the coverage live on my 56-inch HDTV. Hopefully the weather cooperates and we have a launch tomorrow. Good luck to the NH team!
Toma B
Jan 16 2006, 03:37 PM
helvick
Jan 16 2006, 03:47 PM
QUOTE (Toma B @ Jan 16 2006, 04:37 PM)
On the way!!!
Hey she's scooting along at a good 4-5mph now.
Toma B
Jan 16 2006, 04:10 PM
Myran
Jan 16 2006, 04:17 PM
4-5 mph helvick? That was a humble start. Now its on the pad it will be a lot more soon. Even though New Horizon wont beat the Voyagers in the end.
Good luck little probe, I hope they did check your optics and fuel tank properly.
ljk4-1
Jan 16 2006, 04:35 PM
01.12.06
J.D. Harrington
Headquarters, Washington
Phone: (202) 358-5241
George H. Diller
Kennedy Space Center, Fla.
Phone: (321) 867-2468
STATUS REPORT: ELV-011206
EXPENDABLE LAUNCH VEHICLE STATUS REPORT
MISSION: New Horizons
LAUNCH VEHICLE: Lockheed Martin Atlas V 551 (AV-010)
LAUNCH PAD: Complex 41
LAUNCH SITE: Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida
LAUNCH DATE: Jan. 17, 2006
LAUNCH WINDOW: 1:24 p.m. - 3:23 p.m.
The Flight Readiness Review was successfully completed today at the
Kennedy Space Center. The launch of New Horizons remains scheduled
for Jan. 17. The White House Office of Science Technology Policy has
also given approval for the launch to proceed.
Final spacecraft closeouts are under way and will conclude Friday,
Jan. 13. The payload test team will be conducting spacecraft
electrical tests on Saturday, Jan. 14, and the fairing access doors
will be closed for flight.
Rollout of the Atlas V from the Vertical Integration Facility is
scheduled to occur at 10:30 a.m. on Monday, Jan. 16. That afternoon,
the storable RP-1 fuel will be loaded aboard the Atlas first stage
tank.
On Tuesday, Jan. 17, at 10:39 a.m., Pad 41 will be cleared of
personnel in preparation for cryogenic fueling operations which are
scheduled to begin at L-2 hours, or 11:24 a.m.
odave
Jan 16 2006, 05:40 PM
That's quite an inspiring sight. Wunderground's forecast for the cape tomorrow is "partly sunny. Breezy. Highs in the upper 70s. South winds 15 to 20 mph."
Since my company don't 'low no streamin', I think a late-lunch trip to the library is in order...
Analyst
Jan 16 2006, 05:55 PM
Goodluck and sunny weather tomorrow. It's been a long road and still so many miles to go.
Btw, it's the very same launch pad both Voyager's used 1977 (and both Viking's did in 1975).
I will be watching, NASA TV online and hopefully one German TV channel will broadcast the launch. It's 7:24 pm CET, right after work.
Analyst
Toma B
Jan 16 2006, 06:24 PM
It is now exactly T-24 hours until liftoff………..if everything goes as planed at first possible opportunity.
God luck & sunny weather !!!
elakdawalla
Jan 16 2006, 06:47 PM
I'm checking out the really wonderful
Expendable Launch Vehicle Countdown Portal at KSC's website, and there's a lot of info there, but I'm finding it confusing. Can someone help straighten me out?
- First of all, the clock showing GMT and EST time shows 18:00 GMT when my own clock shows 10:41 (PST). So it appears that on my machine at least the applet appears to be running behind by 41 minutes. Does anybody else see a similar delay, or is the clock on the display synchronized to yours?
- Second, the "Window opening time" is listed as 016:17:25:00, which I think is a ddd:hh:mm:ss display. But if that's the case, that refers to a time that passed about an hour ago, and I don't think NH has launched yet
Am I reading this wrong or is the applet messed up and does anybody else see the same thing?
--Emily
punkboi
Jan 16 2006, 06:48 PM
QUOTE (Analyst @ Jan 16 2006, 10:55 AM)
Btw, it's the very same launch pad both Voyager's used 1977 (and both Viking's did in 1975).
Didn't Cassini launch from there as well? Or was that Complex 40?
QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Jan 16 2006, 11:47 AM)
I'm checking out the really wonderful
Expendable Launch Vehicle Countdown Portal at KSC's website, and there's a lot of info there, but I'm finding it confusing. Can someone help straighten me out?
- First of all, the clock showing GMT and EST time shows 18:00 GMT when my own clock shows 10:41 (PST). So it appears that on my machine at least the applet appears to be running behind by 41 minutes. Does anybody else see a similar delay, or is the clock on the display synchronized to yours?
- Second, the "Window opening time" is listed as 016:17:25:00, which I think is a ddd:hh:mm:ss display. But if that's the case, that refers to a time that passed about an hour ago, and I don't think NH has launched yet
Am I reading this wrong or is the applet messed up and does anybody else see the same thing?
--Emily
The only countdown clock I follow is the one on the
JHU website...since it's much simpler
imran
Jan 16 2006, 06:54 PM
Check Spaceflight Now for latest mission updates.
http://spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av010/status.html1830 GMT (1:30 p.m. EST):
Weather forecasters are still predicting an 80 percent chance of favorable conditions for tomorrow's launch.
Toma B
Jan 16 2006, 07:02 PM
imran
Jan 16 2006, 07:08 PM
QUOTE (Toma B @ Jan 16 2006, 07:02 PM)
Awesome pictures! The weather looks perfect for launch. Let's hope it stays this way for the next 24 hours.
Toma B
Jan 16 2006, 07:16 PM
Am I seeing Carolin Porco (...Cassini...) with New Horizon in background?
I didn't know she's involved...is this her?
Click to view attachment
ToSeek
Jan 16 2006, 07:27 PM
QUOTE (Toma B @ Jan 16 2006, 07:16 PM)
Am I seeing Carolin Porco (...Cassini...) with New Horizon in background?
I didn't know she's involved...is this her?
I don't know for sure if it's her, but she's one of the imaging scientists on New Horizons, so it's a definite possibility.
odave
Jan 16 2006, 07:33 PM
QUOTE (imran @ Jan 16 2006, 02:08 PM)
Awesome pictures!
BPCooper's on the job - nice shots, Ben!
Toma B
Jan 16 2006, 07:56 PM
The "go" has been given to the launch team for fueling the Atlas rocket's first stage...
T-22h 26m
Sunspot
Jan 16 2006, 07:59 PM
I'm almost too nervous to watch these launches now. I can't imagine how it must feel when you've spent a good part of your life working on the project, I think i'd be a jibbering wreck
djellison
Jan 16 2006, 08:20 PM
That's CP.
Doug
Toma B
Jan 16 2006, 08:21 PM
...and finally HI-RES pictures at KSC...
New HorizonsMy god...this is going to be AWESOME!!!
Click to view attachment
punkboi
Jan 16 2006, 08:21 PM
QUOTE (Sunspot @ Jan 16 2006, 12:59 PM)
I'm almost too nervous to watch these launches now. I can't imagine how it must feel when you've spent a good part of your life working on the project, I think i'd be a jibbering wreck
I won't be able to watch the launch anyway...since I'll be at work.
yaohua2000
Jan 16 2006, 08:42 PM
Predict trajectory:
http://iota.jhuapl.edu/nh116.htmObserve New Horizons Jan. 17 - best Asia & Australia
punkboi
Jan 16 2006, 08:50 PM
"The first stage fuel tank is now about half full. The kerosene is being pumped from a launch pad storage tank into the base of the Atlas 5 rocket."
nprev
Jan 16 2006, 10:00 PM
QUOTE (Toma B @ Jan 16 2006, 01:21 PM)
...and finally HI-RES pictures at KSC...
New HorizonsMy god...this is going to be AWESOME!!!
Click to view attachment SERIOUS stackage there....more power!!!! (grunt, grunt!)
And, since I'll be on an airplane tomorrow at launch time, dammit....
GOOD LUCK AND GODSPEED, NEW HORIZONS!!!!
deglr6328
Jan 16 2006, 10:16 PM
dumb ? time. Why is the first stage copper clad?
djellison
Jan 16 2006, 10:28 PM
I think it just LOOKS like it's copper clad. iirc
Doug
mcaplinger
Jan 16 2006, 10:45 PM
QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 16 2006, 02:28 PM)
I think it just LOOKS like it's copper clad. iirc
Right. I believe this is the chromate conversion coating (aka "alodine" or "chem-film") on the aluminum structure of the first stage. The white on the Centaur is from the cryogenic insulation.
helvick
Jan 16 2006, 10:56 PM
QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 16 2006, 11:28 PM)
I think it just LOOKS like it's copper clad. iirc
You must be right, copper is far too dense and weak, but it really looks awfully like a a large welded copper tank. An aluminium\copper alloy ?
Looks lovely I must say, a proper hunk of metal.
mchan
Jan 16 2006, 10:58 PM
QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 16 2006, 07:08 AM)
How do you get a spacecraft to Jupiter in under a year?
A bit of editorial stretch there.
djellison
Jan 16 2006, 11:02 PM
That was the actual line I quoted from the previous poster - I know, you know, and we all know it's 13 months
Right
I'll admit it - when I saw that pic, I thought "Hell - that's a hot water tank"
Doug
Airbag
Jan 16 2006, 11:18 PM
QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Jan 16 2006, 06:16 PM)
dumb ? time. Why is the first stage copper clad?
Probably an alumin(i)um/lithium alloy.
Airbag
MahFL
Jan 16 2006, 11:41 PM
The first stage tank is Copper Anodised Aluminium.
" Anodising successfully combines science with nature to create one of nature's best metal finishes.
It is an electrochemical process that thickens and toughens the naturally occurring protective oxide. The resulting finish, depending on the process, is the second hardest substance known to man, second only to diamond"
mchan
Jan 17 2006, 12:07 AM
QUOTE (MahFL @ Jan 16 2006, 03:41 PM)
The first stage tank is Copper Anodised Aluminium.
" Anodising successfully combines science with nature to create one of nature's best metal finishes.
It is an electrochemical process that thickens and toughens the naturally occurring protective oxide. The resulting finish, depending on the process, is the second hardest substance known to man, second only to diamond"
"Copper" anodized aluminum? I understand the anodizing process leaves a bonded coating of aluminum oxide. Is copper used as a descriptive adjective here, or is there actually copper involved?
mcaplinger
Jan 17 2006, 12:15 AM
QUOTE (mchan @ Jan 16 2006, 04:07 PM)
"Copper" anodized aluminum? I understand the anodizing process leaves a bonded coating of aluminum oxide. Is copper used as a descriptive adjective here, or is there actually copper involved?
You can add dyes during the anodizing process and get most any color you like, but as I said before, I think it's more likely that the booster is chromate-conversion coated, because that would leave you with a natural golden-coppery color. But I couldn't find any confirmation in the Atlas documents I looked at. I can say for sure they didn't make the stage out of any AlBe or AlLi alloy, though.
mars loon
Jan 17 2006, 12:28 AM
To Pluto and BEYOND !!!
at last !!!!
and for those who missed it, The Science Channel Documentary on sunday night was quite enjoyable and there are a few more repeats. Here is a brief summary from my other thread.
----------------------------------------------------
The Discovery Science Channel is showing a documentary on the New Horizons mission which premieres on Sunday, Jan 15 at 9PM
check this link:
http://science.discovery.com/tvlistings/ep...d=0&channel=SCISynopsis:
Passport to Pluto
NASA's New Horizons mission is exploring the "new frontier" of the outer reaches of our solar system, solving the mysteries of Pluto and beyond. Meet the scientists who have waited their whole lives for this mission and see what surprises they'll reveal
Tesheiner
Jan 17 2006, 10:24 AM
Here is NH on top of the booster.
Good luck!
Click to view attachment(Hope I did my math correctly...)
edstrick
Jan 17 2006, 11:21 AM
Uh....
Would somebody explain to me how they have 3 solid rocket strapons on one side of the booster and 2 on the other side.. and not have the launch vehicle go "TILT" during flight?.. I think they're firing all 5 at the same time... I'd assumed a evenly spaced "star" pattern for the strapons, but they don't have'm that way.
MahFL
Jan 17 2006, 11:45 AM
This link has some good info on the Atlas. I may have misquoted about the copper...
"The Atlas common core is made out of aluminum with an anodizing process for protection which gives it its characteristic bronze color."
http://www.interspacenews.com/sections/fea...nch_vehicle.htm
djellison
Jan 17 2006, 11:50 AM
QUOTE (edstrick @ Jan 17 2006, 11:21 AM)
Uh....
Would somebody explain to me how they have 3 solid rocket strapons on one side of the booster and 2 on the other side.. and not have the launch vehicle go "TILT" during flight?.. I think they're firing all 5 at the same time... I'd assumed a evenly spaced "star" pattern for the strapons, but they don't have'm that way.
I thought that - but they could have angled nozzles on the solids to put the thrust direction in such a way whereby it all cancels out, and/or use the RD180 to compensate.
If you were to roll 180 degrees, you could use the thrust of the SRB's to pitch over
Doug
ugordan
Jan 17 2006, 11:54 AM
QUOTE (edstrick @ Jan 17 2006, 12:21 PM)
Would somebody explain to me how they have 3 solid rocket strapons on one side of the booster and 2 on the other side.. and not have the launch vehicle go "TILT" during flight?.. I think they're firing all 5 at the same time... I'd assumed a evenly spaced "star" pattern for the strapons, but they don't have'm that way.
It's because every booster's thrust vector is aligned to go through the center of mass of the vehicle. That way no rolling torque is induced, only sideways translation at worst (if one of the boosters under/overperforms or something, inducing translation, which can probably be perfectly well compensated for by the main engine gibals). A similar situation is present with the space shuttle, once the SRBs jettison, the 3 SSMEs need to gimbal to adjust the thrust through the new center of mass.
Bill Harris
Jan 17 2006, 02:12 PM
Good cut-away image, Tesheiner. That puts the spacecraft size into perspective.
Still, it seems to me that the thrust vectors from two boosters would add up to be different than three boosters and the thrust would be uneven. But, heck, I'm just a geologist and they know what they're doing, so I won't fret about it.
I saw Alan Stern on NBC news this morning, in an interview about NH.
Just before the nuclear protesters...
--Bill
ugordan
Jan 17 2006, 02:26 PM
The thrust vectors do add up differently, but as long as they go through the center of mass, no torque is exerted.
Seems like the weather report is steadily becoming less and less favorable. Currently the conditions are "mostly cloudy" (degraded from "partly cloudy") and the wind is picking up, currently at 15 km/h.
What exactly are the launch constraints concerning the wind speed?
Toma B
Jan 17 2006, 02:44 PM
QUOTE (ugordan @ Jan 17 2006, 05:26 PM)
What exactly are the launch constraints concerning the wind speed?
The Atlas 5's wind limit at launch is 33 knots...that's approx. 61 km/h.
1knot=1.852 kilometers per hour
punkboi
Jan 17 2006, 02:46 PM
QUOTE (Toma B @ Jan 17 2006, 07:44 AM)
The Atlas 5's wind limit at launch is 33 knots...that's approx. 61 km/h.
1knot=1.852 kilometers per hour
Err, what's that in
miles?
djellison
Jan 17 2006, 02:49 PM
ugordan
Jan 17 2006, 02:50 PM
QUOTE (punkboi @ Jan 17 2006, 03:46 PM)
Err, what's that in
miles?
It's sad enough you still stick with the imperial system, expecting someone else will convert the figures for you is just rude!
ugordan
Jan 17 2006, 02:52 PM
QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 17 2006, 03:49 PM)
Google is quite powerfull
Yeah, but Atlas V 551 is even more so!
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