I can't run rm files at work .
I have stills of nasa tv though.

Just tuning in now. Going to questions...very happy about something, saying it will take two days to get the oven ready, so it sounds like they got some sample in.

It's a week-long process 4 days of baking.

Despite trouble with obtaining samples, sticking to plans. One more soil sample. 3 or 4 weeks until they get to digging for ice.

As oven started to fill it went from empty to full in a couple seconds.

Used the ice digging routine on the scoop to shake it while delivering sample - called it "salt shaker" mode.

I'm listening. I'll type up some notes afterwards.

Good news, though... they have a sample in the first TEGA oven!

I'm listening to the briefing. Good news: in the last vibration run they actually shook some material loose and have a full oven.

Brilliant !!

Cooking tonight !!!!, or a little later infact........

They don't expect to find much ice in this first sample, but it probably sublimated away if it was there, since it's been sitting in the sunlight so long. In fact, one hypothesis is that it finally went through the screen because of this sublimation of water.

This place is dripping wet then ?

if... hypothesis...

Sublimation. Ice-to-Gas without liquid phase.

Doug

Ok it's an hypothesis but what could have led to sublimation? Can't be the vibrations I guess. Can it be because the screen warmed up the grains in contact? The whole sample warmed up because of Phoenix?

I think it's because exposed ice (to air and sun) sublimates faster than if it was, say, one inch deep under the surface. A couple of times Boynton and Smith even mentioned the possibility that it was liquid.

BTW, by calling (800)925-0173 one can listen to a replay of the whole teleconference over the phone. Pressing 7 skips back 30 seconds, 8 pauses, and 9 skips ahead 30 seconds. Hit 9 several times at the beginning to skip over the music.

If things are as they seem, then the structure at depth in this location consists of a dry surface where therefore ice does not persist and a deeper subsurface where it persists. It makes sense that if you raise material from below, you're going to move it from the location where it persists to a place where it doesn't.

In a bit more detail: The deeper you go subsurface, the more you weaken the seasonal and daily variations in temperature. You have permafrost where the annual temperature is below freezing AND deep enough for the cyclical temperatures to remain below freezing even at the maximum temperature. In contrast, you have a glacier where the maximum temperature is below freezing. (On Earth, you can even have glaciers where the maximum temperature is well above freezing, but that's because we have places where there is significant annual snowfall.)

The Phoenix landing site has permafrost, but not a glacier (or permanent polar cap). So it makes sense that when you dig things up at this, the warmest time of the year, you'll be exposing ice to temperatures at which ice cannot remain frozen.

Don't have much to add from the notes I took during the briefing. But here are a few things:

• The TEGA oven doors will remain open for a couple more days. The plans for tosol were already laid out and it was too late to change them after learning about the TEGA sample delivery. Tomorrow will be focused on the MECA OM receiving its sample.
• The "sprinkle test" (seen in the recent press release) took somewhere between 10-15 minutes and involved just 4-5 tbsps of material.

In addition to calling the phone number listed above, the briefing will be archived and posted on JPL's website by this evening, and that's probably an easier way to listen. Next briefing will be televised, Friday at 2pm central.

IIRC international callers are unable to access U.S. 800 numbers

There is a number for international callers, but I don't know what it is. I'll see if I can find out if anyone wants it.

edit - No luck. I don't really know of too many places to look for it. It's mentioned at the end of the briefing, so once that's posted online you can hear it. But of course, if you're listening to the online version there's really no need for the number, so....

US/Canada can use the 800 number
others can use (402)998-0031

One more thing to add from the teleconference: Dr. Bill Boynton said he found out that the oven was full about 1 hour before their "mid-point" status meeting where the moderator goes around the table asking the status of each instrument. He decided to keep it quiet until that meeting and just dropped it at the end of his status report, whereupon everyone erupted in cheers and a standing ovation, and Boynton played "Shake Shake Shake" which he had cued up on his laptop. One reporter asked: "were people dancing?" and Boynton replied: "*I* was."

Very nicely composed sequence taken tosol.



James

Looks like the solar panels are getting a bit dusty already. Probably all that dirt they're flinging about

**** me that's a nice mosaic.

a beauty! and good news on the oven

Another possibility is that the exposure to UV from the sun dissipated the static charge that had built up within the soil.

I don't think that UV exposure would dissipate a static charge, if that's what's holding the soil clumps together. However, prolonged surface contact with the oven doors (if they're conductive, which they appear to be) might do it, combined with a sol or two of thermal expansion/contraction to loosen things up.

James, that picture will go the distance. Submit it to APOD, and the wider press. It will be in books 50 years from now - if there are still books.

So, the coagulation has gone away. Which was it - defrosted or discharged? Can we expect to find out??

If melting (yes, briefly liquid saline water) makes the soil coagulate then concretise, then what is the best strategy for getting ice through the sieve? Move it at night???

James, yes, you really should submit that to APOD, you did an awesome job. That single mosaic perhaps best captures what Phoenix was sent to do on Mars - dig!

I took the liberty of slightly tweaking your color balance, I hope you don't mind:


And a quick color composite of the automatically generated mosaic, complete with bad filter pointing:

I've missed all today's great news because I've been at work, so apologies for adding this late, but a) woo-hoo for the ovenful of dust! and seriously James, you've produced a classic, definitive image there, you should try to get it seen by as many people as possible. Great job on TPS blog too, BTW.

Nigel, I don't think a liquid phase is possible at that temp & atmospheric pressure; ice would have to sublimate. Same basic result, though, as far as clod decomposition. (I guess...Would ice under these conditions form bonding chains in the soil, or would it tend to accrete in little discrete clumps of its own?)

Sure wish Phoenix had a relative humidity sensor (ideally at the end of the arm!), but I can't even imagine how to build one for Martian conditions.

Oh, and James, let me add my voice to the chorus: an absolutely striking image!!!

Today's briefing has now been posted online.

[LINK]

The half resolution image makes a great new wallpaper. Thanks James!

David

Yep. That image went straight to the desktop. Brilliant!

That one goes straight into the gallery!
Brilliant as always James.

As ugordan has done, here's a variation on your image.
Click to view attachment

Astro0

Thanks for the comments, and nice variations. I usually reduce the saturation myself from what my software spits out, but this was done as a bit of a rush job while very tired. I may redo it tonight, this one deserves a bit of effort.

James

great work. you should submit !

I know this is in the wrong thread anyway but I just want to set the record straight. I'm not suggesting a transient liquid state now, at the surface. I'm suggesting a possible transient liquid state at some season/time of day a few centimetres down, just above the permanently frozen layer. By the time of digging it's probably already freeze-dried, I agree. Not arguing against dry electrostatic clumping either. Here's hoping we find out which soon.

Marvellous effort James, and yes, I definitely want to see it on APOD as well. They are very friendly guys, and would certainly be happy about your contribution.

I was very surprised at all the feedback from all over the world I got when I had a pic on APOD: emails from all the continents (still waiting for Antarctica though). The APOD page is translated into all major languages and many minor ones as well, so a LOT of people get to see it.

Thanks for the new wallpaper!

Question re the bright spot on the side of the scoop: is paint being scraped off?

Seems a bit too uniform to be a scratch, looks more related to the construction.

Although, now that you mention it, they could stand out a little at the side and could be getting polished a bit. But I'd doubt they are random scratches.

So what's wrong with TECP's relative humidity sensor?

Interesting. Have measurements been taken yet? It would be nice to have RH included in the daily weather reports.

"...we can calculate the absolute humidity, and thereby determine the RH of the ambient atmosphere as accurately as its temperature (Ta) can be measured." http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/polar2006/pdf/8080.pdf

I have read that Mars' nighttime atmosphere is almost always at or near 100% relative humidity, not because there's very much water vapor but because the thin, cold air can only hold a tiny amount of water vapor.

Since the polar regions are always cold, I'd guess that the RH at the Phoenix site is somewhat on the high side, pretty much all of the time. I'll be interested to see what the TECP shows.

-the other Doug

Sol 17 pics just came down.

http://www.met.tamu.edu/mars/017.html

The Peter Pan - sol 17
Click to view attachment

I had another go at the sol 16 part of The Peter Pan and added the sol 17 bit as well.



As a bonus there is also a small version of all the sections of The Peter Pan taken so far in the correct relative positions.



James

Scientifically More is Better of course, but I actually think the first mosaic - without the sol 17 bit - is much stronger in its composition!

Keep going at it, this is just wonderful: seeing the whole panorama opening up in glorious colour...

I agree, and I have to admit my favourite version so far is Astro0's in post 131.

I agree that the composition of just sol 16 is better, in fact I was away creating a cropped version as you posted.




James

Sorry all, just realised that I uploaded the wrong versions before, all fixed now. So if you were keen and went in the last hour then you might want to go again.

James, just fabulous

I suggest you "fix" the arm where it enters the image and there's a little bad overlap between the mosaics. It will detract nothing from the veracity of the image, and will be a good deal more pleasing to look at. Very minor point of course.

I made a little animated GIF of them focusing the RAC. Looks like there is some dirt on the lens.

Done. The things I do for you lot.

J