I am also a devoted fan of these excellent rover updates. As you pointed out, they are often a valuable source of information that is not available elsewhere. I was only trying to cautiously suggest that the publication process that is being used could be improved upon with some additional layers of review.
Full Version: The Planetary Society Rover Updates
Climber: Please don't misinterpret my comment. I am also a devoted fan of these excellent rover updates. As you pointed out, they are often a valuable source of information that is not available elsewhere. I was only trying to cautiously suggest that the publication process that is being used could be improved upon with some additional layers of review.
I am also a devoted fan of these excellent rover updates. As you pointed out, they are often a valuable source of information that is not available elsewhere. I was only trying to cautiously suggest that the publication process that is being used could be improved upon with some additional layers of review.
Good news about Spirit's power situation!
Still some confusion in this report about Oppy's moves:
I wonder which 4 wheels they're talking about here:
A bit of a humorous slip here:
And finally the current thinking about approaching Verde:
Still some confusion in this report about Oppy's moves:
QUOTE
Opportunity concentrated on its routine atmospheric observations on Sol 1498 (April 10, 2008)... During the next two sols, Opportunity... drove closer toward Cape Verde.
As we discussed before, Oppy actually backed away from Verde at this time.I wonder which 4 wheels they're talking about here:
QUOTE
Then, on Sol 1501 (April 14, 2008), Opportunity... drove backward 24 centimeters (9.5 inches) with no errors, placing four of its six wheels back on bedrock and giving rover drivers hope that the golf-cart-sized robot field geologist would soon be out of the sand.
A bit of a humorous slip here:
QUOTE
The way the rover is configured, the same motor that drives Joint 1 in the shoulder also drives the right front wheel.
I think that should be motor controller board! And finally the current thinking about approaching Verde:
QUOTE
The MER science team members are still looking forward to Opportunity roving in as close as it can get to the base of Cape Verde, another 15 to 20 meters ahead. "We've been taking images of the areas during different times of day and you can kind of see the extent of the shadows and it looks now like we will probably have to maintain a standoff distance of at least 5 meters."
A question for those who know their way around the Columbia Hills location better than I do: Is the rim of Gusev visible from Spirit's present location? I note from the update that the clarity of the air is the best yet observed by either rover. Will the Gusev rim feature in the Bonestell panorama? Do we have any recent images that show it?
I'm pretty sure it is visible, I remember seeing it while fitting bits of the Bonestell Pan together. I'm not at home right now so I can't find the raw image/MMB, I'm sure it'll be visible in a MMB pan.
James
EDIT: Left side of this http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p...0P2298R1M1.HTML
and right side of this http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p...0P2292R1M2.HTML
James
EDIT: Left side of this http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p...0P2298R1M1.HTML
and right side of this http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p...0P2292R1M2.HTML
Thanks James. I just love clear days and distant views - on any planet. The rim of Gusev is like Ireland or the Isle of Man seen from North Wales - an occasional treat. 
QUOTE (ngunn @ May 2 2008, 11:28 AM) 
The rim of Gusev is like Ireland or the Isle of Man seen from North Wales - an occasional treat.
Having spent quite a few rain-soaked hols in Betws-y-Coed, wondering if I should go for a wander down to Fairy Glen again or start rounding up pairs of animals and building a big boat, I reckon that seeing across the street would be "an occasional treat"!
QUOTE (Stu @ May 2 2008, 11:35 AM)
I reckon that seeing across the street would be "an occasional treat"!
Aye, some days are better for mushrooms than mountains to be sure. But there again the rain clears the air beautifully. One wet day on Mars would work wonders. (Maybe mushrooms even.
)
Back to the Gusev rim query.
Using AndyG's endless panorama, http://personal.strath.ac.uk/andrew.goddard/pan.html, the azimuth of the distant feature in the two images James linked to would seem to be about 230 degrees. I'm not sure that Gusev has a very pronounced rim in this direction. The good images of the rim from Husband Hill were mostly looking northeastward, beyond 'Thira'. So now there are two questions. Is the Gusev rim currently visible in a northeasterly direction, and what exactly is that distant feature at azimuth 230? I notice there is a very prominent crater just OUTSIDE Gusev in that direction:
Using AndyG's endless panorama, http://personal.strath.ac.uk/andrew.goddard/pan.html, the azimuth of the distant feature in the two images James linked to would seem to be about 230 degrees. I'm not sure that Gusev has a very pronounced rim in this direction. The good images of the rim from Husband Hill were mostly looking northeastward, beyond 'Thira'. So now there are two questions. Is the Gusev rim currently visible in a northeasterly direction, and what exactly is that distant feature at azimuth 230? I notice there is a very prominent crater just OUTSIDE Gusev in that direction:
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ May 2 2008, 10:20 AM)
I'm pretty sure it is visible... http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p...0P2298R1M1.HTML
Remember how even the hills/crater rim on the near horizon in that image were pretty obscured during the dust storm?
The report said Spirit had a tau of 0.127 on sol 1511, the lowest seen by either rover. I've been wondering how dark the sky looks overhead, and what the hue is like. The sky looks very dark in hazcam views like this one:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...00P1161L0M1.JPG
QUOTE (ngunn @ May 2 2008, 02:02 PM)
Is the Gusev rim currently visible in a northeasterly direction, and what exactly is that distant feature at azimuth 230? I notice there is a very prominent crater just OUTSIDE Gusev in that direction
I don't think we could see the NE rim, since Mitcheltree Ridge is in the way.
I think the feature near az 230 is part of the Gusev rim. The horizon pan in this post shows it at az 225 degrees. Comparing with the orbital view in this image it looks like az 225 is part of Gusev's rim.
It looks like we may be seeing part of that crater outside Gusev at around az 250-255 in the pan I linked to.
What strikes me about the orbital image you referenced is the dark streaks in the middle of Gusev, laid down by the dust devils. Even though the individual dust devil tracks tend to run along the WNW-ESE direction, the cumulative 'smear' they cause, especially in the streak in the center of Gusev, aligns almost perfectly with the angle at which the deep channel enters Gusev from the south, SSE to NNW. The streak to the left of center is also aligned in this direction, but you can't visualize it as an extension of the channel. Is this overall pattern a coincidence, or might it point to the channel affecting the local wind conditions across Gusev?
QUOTE (fredk @ May 2 2008, 04:44 PM)
It looks like we may be seeing part of that crater outside Gusev at around az 250-255 in the pan I linked to.
Thanks for that post fredk, very helpful. I'll be on the lookout for all the distant features that may be present in the Bonestell images, now assisted by those useful links. It would be nice to have an accurate graticule centred on Home Plate for the orbital view to facilitate correct identifications.
I am particularly excited by the possibility that we may be able to see part of that crater outside Gusev. (Does anybody know if it has a name - even an informal one?) Assuming it appears in the Bonestell, comparison with the Everest should make it possible to triangulate distances - maybe even permitting an anaglyph of a feature more than 100 km away!
Great to see Glen's image (with Doug's rover) of Oppy approaching Cape Verde in the TPS update.
Strikes me that we see the work of UMSF members there more often than not over the last year or so; you guys are just awesome!
Strikes me that we see the work of UMSF members there more often than not over the last year or so; you guys are just awesome!
It should be said that the quality of the journalism and writing in those Planetary Society reports is just wonderful, and puts the efforts of most so-called "professional" reporters and journalists covering the story to shame. They're not praised enough or given enough credit, I reckon.
Sally's work is stunning - and to be honest, you could run them all together, put a cover on it and sell them.
Sally's articles and Emily's blogging compliment one another beautifully - and they've done a good job during Phoenix as well.
Doug
Sally's articles and Emily's blogging compliment one another beautifully - and they've done a good job during Phoenix as well.
Doug
I want to join the crowd here. These updates are high in my agenda each month to be red.
Sally only forget to make the images clickable this month but I guess it can still be done ?
Sally only forget to make the images clickable this month but I guess it can still be done ?
Ummmm.... oops?
-the other Doug
QUOTE
This image shows the Pancam team's planning map of what Opportunity has taken so far of the Bonesetll Pan and what's left to go.
-the other Doug
As always, it is a great read that continues to get better and better. This is one of the best yet, with all kinds of interesting tidbits. Pick your favorite bit and post it here.
I had a difficult time deciding, but I think this quote was my favorite regarding Opportunity: ""But it is scientifically the right direction to go anyway." That's because as the rover drives southward, the scientists expect to find younger rock layers on the surface and older cobbles that may have come from craters larger and deeper than Victoria."
As BrianL and Rui have said elsewhere, it is all about the journey, and this has been one of the greatest of all journeys for our species. Let's savor it's continued excitement, regardless of the obstacles that we might be required to overcome. As Paolo has pointed out, we have HiRise for this new leg of the journey, and all of the fancy maps our experts have been preparing...
I had a difficult time deciding, but I think this quote was my favorite regarding Opportunity: ""But it is scientifically the right direction to go anyway." That's because as the rover drives southward, the scientists expect to find younger rock layers on the surface and older cobbles that may have come from craters larger and deeper than Victoria."
As BrianL and Rui have said elsewhere, it is all about the journey, and this has been one of the greatest of all journeys for our species. Let's savor it's continued excitement, regardless of the obstacles that we might be required to overcome. As Paolo has pointed out, we have HiRise for this new leg of the journey, and all of the fancy maps our experts have been preparing...
As always, great reading for us rover enthusiasts! - I have one suggestion though. These reports are not meant to give us a blow-by-blow account of what happens on an everyday basis. They serve to digest the action of a prolonged period. Therefore, I think the account would work better if one narrative is told at a time. The Bagnold story, the cloud time-lapse story, the mosaics and calibration images, they are all different narratives - sub-stories if you will - that belong to the grand tale of Oppy. As it is, they are sometimes meshed together in the report, and I think that weakens the story.
An example:
-----
"The rover approached the ridge from the west, driving on flat ground, on Sols 1648 and again on Sol 1650 (September 14, 2008). Then, after reaching a sort of staging position, it tried to climb the ridge. The rover’s wheels, however, began slipping excessively on the sandy slope. “It was a situation where we had to kind of climb up to Bagnold and as we got closer and closer the wheels were sinking deeper and deeper and we were seeing slip numbers in excess of 98%,” said Squyres. “The wheels were turning and turning and turning and we weren’t going anywhere.”
Opportunity searched for clouds passing overhead with more six-frame, time-lapse, movies with the navigation camera on Sol 1652 (September 16, 2008), then checked for drift -- changes with time -- in the Mini-TES and conducted another test of the instrument on a target nicknamed Velvet, before beginning another attempt at getting close to Bagnold. No luck.
The following sol, Opportunity acquired a mosaic of westward-looking images with the navigation camera and took images in total darkness with the Pancam for calibration purposes, while the MER scientists and engineers huddled to figure out what to do about Bagnold. After discussing the situation, the MER team decided to give Opportunity one more chance by loosening the slip constraints and the rover bravely tried once more to get to Bagnold, but the attempt was, again, futile.
At that point, the team decided to abandon the effort. "The rover continued to encounter excessive slip, so we ended up deciding not to pursue that target any further,” said Laubach. “We took a lot of images, but we just could not do the in situ campaign.""
-----
I really think the "search for clouds" narrative should be told following the Bagnold story, not in the middle of it, though that is the chronological way to do it. You read about Bagnold, then suddenly there's a break, and then it comes back again. The mosaics and calibration images detail could also be removed somewhere else. Respect for the chronology is not of paramount importance in this report format, it should be about telling the individual stories of what went on in a given period.
This is just a suggestion, hope the writer doesn't take it badly, if he (or she) pops by here...
An example:
-----
"The rover approached the ridge from the west, driving on flat ground, on Sols 1648 and again on Sol 1650 (September 14, 2008). Then, after reaching a sort of staging position, it tried to climb the ridge. The rover’s wheels, however, began slipping excessively on the sandy slope. “It was a situation where we had to kind of climb up to Bagnold and as we got closer and closer the wheels were sinking deeper and deeper and we were seeing slip numbers in excess of 98%,” said Squyres. “The wheels were turning and turning and turning and we weren’t going anywhere.”
Opportunity searched for clouds passing overhead with more six-frame, time-lapse, movies with the navigation camera on Sol 1652 (September 16, 2008), then checked for drift -- changes with time -- in the Mini-TES and conducted another test of the instrument on a target nicknamed Velvet, before beginning another attempt at getting close to Bagnold. No luck.
The following sol, Opportunity acquired a mosaic of westward-looking images with the navigation camera and took images in total darkness with the Pancam for calibration purposes, while the MER scientists and engineers huddled to figure out what to do about Bagnold. After discussing the situation, the MER team decided to give Opportunity one more chance by loosening the slip constraints and the rover bravely tried once more to get to Bagnold, but the attempt was, again, futile.
At that point, the team decided to abandon the effort. "The rover continued to encounter excessive slip, so we ended up deciding not to pursue that target any further,” said Laubach. “We took a lot of images, but we just could not do the in situ campaign.""
-----
I really think the "search for clouds" narrative should be told following the Bagnold story, not in the middle of it, though that is the chronological way to do it. You read about Bagnold, then suddenly there's a break, and then it comes back again. The mosaics and calibration images detail could also be removed somewhere else. Respect for the chronology is not of paramount importance in this report format, it should be about telling the individual stories of what went on in a given period.
This is just a suggestion, hope the writer doesn't take it badly, if he (or she) pops by here...
"which enables the rover to plan optimal long-range drives around any obstacles in order to travel the most direct safe route to the drive's designated destination."
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/image...int.cfm?id=2168
http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/handle/2014/40330 mentions D*
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/image...int.cfm?id=2168
http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/handle/2014/40330 mentions D*
I was glad to hear that we have had favourable winds to help clean off the solar arrays. Now if we could only encounter someone with a lens brush...
My favorite quote:
“We could have decided to do is just go noodling around out on the plains, sniffing at cobbles until the wheels fall off,” said Squyres. “But you know, that just didn’t feel to me like the right thing to do. These are the Mars Exploration Rovers. We decided that it would be good to set a really challenging, maybe impossible goal for ourselves, then take on the challenge of trying to meet it.”
My sentiments exactly. Puttering about over ground already covered would have driven me to tears. Can you imagine anyone else heading up this mission? It would be like Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford, Star Wars without... um, well Harrison Ford, The Fugitive without... Tommy Lee Jones. And Harrison Ford.
Anyway, I know this will make Doug cringe, but I'm convinced these rovers are still going on Steve Power. I'm sure a Kirlian photo of these rovers would show an aura stretching back in a thin line to one point on the Earth. When the Large Hadron Collider finally produces the Big Bang, scientists around the world will be startled by an image in the traces. "Is that a face? Doesn't that look a lot like..."
“We could have decided to do is just go noodling around out on the plains, sniffing at cobbles until the wheels fall off,” said Squyres. “But you know, that just didn’t feel to me like the right thing to do. These are the Mars Exploration Rovers. We decided that it would be good to set a really challenging, maybe impossible goal for ourselves, then take on the challenge of trying to meet it.”
My sentiments exactly. Puttering about over ground already covered would have driven me to tears. Can you imagine anyone else heading up this mission? It would be like Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford, Star Wars without... um, well Harrison Ford, The Fugitive without... Tommy Lee Jones. And Harrison Ford.
Anyway, I know this will make Doug cringe, but I'm convinced these rovers are still going on Steve Power. I'm sure a Kirlian photo of these rovers would show an aura stretching back in a thin line to one point on the Earth. When the Large Hadron Collider finally produces the Big Bang, scientists around the world will be startled by an image in the traces. "Is that a face? Doesn't that look a lot like..."
QUOTE (BrianL @ Oct 2 2008, 06:39 AM)
"Is that a face? Doesn't that look a lot like..."
Harrison Ford?
Some interesting tidbits were the 2-year estimate to reach Endeavour, named after a city in Saskatchewan.
And the fact that they're trying to shake some dust off the mini TES on Oppy.
And the fact that they're trying to shake some dust off the mini TES on Oppy.
This was my favorite quote...
"Anytime we see a good cobble, we're going to jam on the brakes and go after it," Squyres assured rock hounds, "but right now we're just trying to cover as much distance as possible."
"Anytime we see a good cobble, we're going to jam on the brakes and go after it," Squyres assured rock hounds, "but right now we're just trying to cover as much distance as possible."
Well, perhaps this was my favorite quote...
QUOTE
Perhaps the best news of all for Opportunity this month is that it has not had any repeat of the current spike it experienced on the left front actuator a couple months ago. "Everything's back pretty much to normal," said Matijevic. "We've been checking the draw on the drive actuators after every drive and they've been generally all within nominal levels. So we're just going to keep moving along."
I can't avoid it...I really can't...rereading the TPS update I made a stop at that this words from SS...:
""This area [which has not yet been named] is about a kilometer or kilometer and a half south of Victoria and we're moving pretty well along the rim of the crater down towards that outcrop."
Huum...not yet been named? That was what I was talking about...
Here goes a suggestion, since we are following Endeavour's how about taking locations, currents and navigational terms directly connected to Cook's journey?
And since we are leaving the port the following name sounds sooo appropriate and...catchy!
The Sound
"Sailing the Sound"...Sounds just perfect in my opinion...
I love old charts...here's a couple:
http://www.antique-maps-online.co.uk/plymo...sound-chart.JPG
http://www.turnchapel.com/images/Old%20map%20of%20Sound.jpg
http://www.antique-maps-online.co.uk/john-pine-armada-chart
""This area [which has not yet been named] is about a kilometer or kilometer and a half south of Victoria and we're moving pretty well along the rim of the crater down towards that outcrop."
Huum...not yet been named? That was what I was talking about...
Here goes a suggestion, since we are following Endeavour's how about taking locations, currents and navigational terms directly connected to Cook's journey?
And since we are leaving the port the following name sounds sooo appropriate and...catchy!
The Sound
"Sailing the Sound"...Sounds just perfect in my opinion...
I love old charts...here's a couple:
http://www.antique-maps-online.co.uk/plymo...sound-chart.JPG
http://www.turnchapel.com/images/Old%20map%20of%20Sound.jpg
http://www.antique-maps-online.co.uk/john-pine-armada-chart
QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Nov 2 2008, 08:12 AM)
Well, perhaps this was my favorite quote...
mine too.
and, of course, this one:
QUOTE
“drive, drive, drive," said Squyres.
"Ma ate Spirit" 
I sure hope not...
I sure hope not...
Ha ha, how about "Mars beginning to hate Spirit" since "Mars Rover Beginning To Hate Mars"
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/54360
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/54360
...and congratulations to Stu, MHoward, Tesheiner, Astro0, and Doug for their cited contributions to the article!
(Apologize if I left anyone out...the images were mostly from UMSF members...pretty damn impressive!)
(Apologize if I left anyone out...the images were mostly from UMSF members...pretty damn impressive!)
QUOTE
“drive, drive, drive,” Squyres reiterated. During the last couple of weeks, it's been driving like there’s no tomorrow, logging more than 500 meters just since leaving the Crete area earlier this month. And, another 160-meter drive is slated for today.
Wow, those words sound like music to me ears
Do the
new navcams at Exploratorium as of jan-31
already show the result after that latest 160-meter drive ??
Thanks for the notice, Bobby. That report is one of my fave's -- it illuminates the ongoing story very nicely
Cupla thots:
Steve Squyres is the Steve Jobs of robotic space exploration.
Bill Nye needs to reposition his microphone so there's not as much room ambience on his PS addresses.
I keep thinking of the rovers bringing Mars into focus like its part of our world - Marstralia, hehe
Cupla thots:
Steve Squyres is the Steve Jobs of robotic space exploration.
Bill Nye needs to reposition his microphone so there's not as much room ambience on his PS addresses.
I keep thinking of the rovers bringing Mars into focus like its part of our world - Marstralia, hehe
QUOTE (Nirgal @ Feb 1 2009, 11:51 AM)
Do the
new navcams at Exploratorium as of jan-31
already show the result after that latest 160-meter drive ??
new navcams at Exploratorium as of jan-31
already show the result after that latest 160-meter drive ??
No. There are no images from 1786 yet - and nothing on the tracking site to tell us where we are yet either.
Here's hoping it was a big one.
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Feb 1 2009, 06:15 AM)
No. There are no images from 1786 yet - and nothing on the tracking site to tell us where we are yet either.
Here's hoping it was a big one.
Here's hoping it was a big one.
In order to use up all the time between ODY passes we have postponed the imaging to Sol 1787. There should be a set of penultimate Haz on 1786, we'll see.
Paolo
QUOTE (brellis @ Feb 1 2009, 01:08 PM)
Cupla thots:
Steve Squyres is the Steve Jobs of robotic space exploration.
Steve Squyres is the Steve Jobs of robotic space exploration.
I hope there are no health-related similarities...
SS has a very tough job as well...On a much happier note, yes, another fabulous Planetary.org article! It would be great if they offered a link to a printable version, I think this is great bed-time reading, making for happy dreams of roving on Mars.
QUOTE (Oersted @ Feb 1 2009, 10:20 PM)
It would be great if they offered a link to a printable version, I think this is great bed-time reading, making for happy dreams of roving on Mars.
Reminds me of when Pathfinder was active in 1997. In the morning I would dial out on my 33 kbaud modem to log onto the internet, check for updates and new images on the MPF homepage, print them out, and later in the day (at school) pore over the news during lunch.
I had to go to a local company that sold dial up internet access for about £5/hour. Take floppy disks. Download pathfinder images onto them, take them home, and print them out on a 24pin dot matrix printer and hold it around my head
Luxury!
I had to get up two hours before I went to bed, wind up a clockwork computer, and draw what I saw on't screen.
Tell that to the kids of today, and they won't believe you.
I had to get up two hours before I went to bed, wind up a clockwork computer, and draw what I saw on't screen.
Tell that to the kids of today, and they won't believe you.
Clockwork? You were lucky.
Ah, you young whippersnappers...I had to trudge over to my local college library every week in 1976 & hope that the latest issue of AW&ST had a fresh Viking photo or two! And I was damn glad to have them!
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