Just let this old abyss lover enjoy it while it lasts...

Something looks funny about the JPL image showing the "outcrop promontory on near wall".... 2077 meters!?! Looks like they are keeping one foot in the far rim camp after all.

And Phil's on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
'This vertical stretch technique was first applied to Viking Lander 2 panoramas by Philip Stooke, of the University of Western Ontario, Canada, to help locate the lander with respect to orbiter images. Vertically stretching the image allows features to be more readily identified by the Mars Exploration Rover science team.

Though difficult to discern without labels, the southeast rim of Victoria Crater is visible, as well as two small craters on the dark "annulus," or ring, around Victoria Crater.'

Perhaps JPL is saying that the Beacon feature is 500 meters beyond the far rim of Victoria! None of my maps show any details beyond 400 meters.

Perhaps JPL's little joke on UMSF?

Joining Poll (too) Late

You were fast, Senhor Ustrax. I was just about to post this clip from the web site you give a link to.....
Kenny

"The bright white dot on the horizon near the upper left corner of the panorama, labeled "Outcrop Promontory," was thought to be a light-toned outcrop on the far wall of Victoria, based on a single azimuth measurement on sol 804 (April 28, 2006), suggesting that the rover was seeing over the low rim of Victoria. But comparing the azimuth angle of this feature in the sol 855 panorama and the angle of the same feature in the sol 804 panoramic image [PIA08446] (a process known as triangulation) revealed that this outcrop must instead be on the near rim of the crater. "

Ahahhahahahah!
After the abyss the GLORY!!!
AHAHAHHAHHAHAHAH!!!


I knew that...kenny...And Senhor is outdated...just call us...let's say...Near Rim Masters!!!!!!!!!!
Just let me work on a proper and cruel cartoon...

I'm just wondering how may hits to UMSF come from the "jpl.nasa.gov" domain.

And now, I'll enjoy a cool beer!

I could tell you....but I'd have to kill you.

More than none, less than hundreds.

Doug

Very true. That's quite odd - the range should be in the 700m range right? Intriguing.

Intriguing?...I believe that the reference to Mr. Stooke should be taken as not intriguing at all...
Oh man...That leaves so happy...
Ultreya!!!

Good work guys, what can I say!

Nothing!

You near-rimmers...Just send me a message,,,In the answer back there will be a gift...
WE RULE!!!

Not so fast.

Notice the two lines that converge on the very weak near rim feature pass through two very bright features on the far rim. How can you near rim guys be so sure that we are not seeing two distinct far rim features on sol 804 and 859? It is pretty clear to me that we are dealing with a complex of features on the far rim -- not one puny outcrop on the near rim.

If the beacon is near rim, where are the other much brighter near rim features?

I would not pop the champaign cork just yet.

I will believe that the beacon is on the near rim when Oppy parks in front of it and reads the plaque that states "Here stands the infamous Victoria beacon -- a warning to all travelers that things are not what they seem. ".

JPL popped it with Stooke's cork...I'm popping it...Enough is enough!

WE RULE!

Somebody confused feet with meters. 2077 feet would be about right.

[quote name='Pavel' date='Jun 29 2006, 10:37 PM' post='60158']
Somebody confused feet with meters. 2077 feet would be about right.


Hey you Beacon fighters...:would care for a sardine on this Saint Peter's celebration holiday here in Sintra?

I'm http://images.google.pt/imgres?imgurl=http...D%26sa%3DN]here right now...

Damn! I can't get the right link...I'm on location 5...
having a sardine and a beer and a salad...Great party going on wish you all we're here!

I really need to refer you to Shaka's thoughts on JPL as "authorities".

Meanwhile I'm hanging in there with Horton. My gut is rarely wrong on things like this.

Hey amigo,

Believe it or not, I had that in Sintra a few years ago - cerveja, salad e peixes.

Wish I was there with you, rasing a glass in a toast to the magnificent Argument of the Pointless ....

Kenny

That's more like it. Just because JPL and their precious scientists do not adopt The Gap Hypothesis does not make it false. I still believe Ustrax will wail and gnash teeth in the agony of defeat for the second time in a few weeks. The first time will be much sooner... On Saturday, Becks and the boys will lay waste to the Portuguese footballers on their march to the Holy Grail.

Do not give up the fight yet, FarSiders!!!!

Brian

That is very interesting thing but, for me, it is not always 100% with a final happy! but it really work for me at most of the time.

Rodolfo

He is not yet dead
That's what the geezer said
Oh, he's not yet dead
That man is off his head
He is not yet dead
Put him back in bed
Keep him off the cart because he's not yet dead

"The bright white dot on the horizon near the upper left corner of the panorama, labeled "Outcrop Promontory,"

"Outcrop Promontory"?? What kind of a half-a**ed unimaginative name is that? We're not going to be stuck with that, are we? That's just... well... boring.

Quite frankly, I feel the Near Rim team ought to have official naming rights for the Beacon.

I'm sorry Sir. I don't understand why Near Rimers have to name OUR Far Rim Beacon!

Yes...I agree, but I believe it is not the definitive name for the beacon...
I have this promontory in mind...

If Becks and associates can do just as well against us as they did in 2000 and 2004...

Next time you're around say something, I live here...

For either Portugal or Becks and associates, next one will be France anyway! When did you both won against France? I can't remember for sure if Pele was already born

Don't remind me sad things...

The sooner England are out, the sooner the media here can stop pretending we actually have any chance of winning the thing and life can return to normality

Doug

Let's see tomorrow Doug...Above all is a game between old friends...

Beacon's best view so far:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...O9P2436L2M1.JPG

What Beacon???
I see 3 of them...

There is a DARK near rim promentory rising in front of a bright far rim outcrop which shows on either side of the near rim promentory as left and right beacons.

Here is a rough 5x vertical exaggeration of the Sol 865 (?) L2 Pancam. The Beacon outcrop rocks are showing very strongly through the windgap...

--Bill

Here a vertical view with a line (in red) traced to the beacon's heading as of sol 864.
Definitely on the near rim!

Click to view attachment

About the "gap" theory: In such hypotetical case we would be looking for a different feature on the far rim then on sol 855 (lines in red). Now, just compare the beacon on both set of pancams (855 and 864); is it a different feature? I don't think so.

I don't know, one white blob looks pretty much like any other white blob, which is all we can really see from this distance. Plus, the overhead shot shows several very similar promontories.

OK, we all know the Gap is a faint hope. We can't fight triangulation. Just allow us to stay in denial for a little while longer.

Brian

HEY!
Who moved my beacon ? I left it in plain view, on the far side of Victoria ...

Captain?

I thought he was the cheerleader. (I couldn't resist, either.)

Seriously though, I was about to congratulate the Near team, but I think I'll wait a while longer. On the sol 864 drive, Opportunity climbed to the highest elevation it has been at in a long time. We are seeing many more features on Victoria than ever, and more clearly. As I write, sol 865 images are coming down. I wonder what we'll see.

It's horrible being on vacation - I'm so out of it... but it looks like my buddies at JPL are getting it right now!

Phil

Tom, the eyebrow-raiser for me on the far-near issue is how the visibility of The Beacon varies from Sol to Sol. Some days it is prominent, some days not. For a rock sitting on a flat plain of gravel, it ought to be easily visible at all times. But a bluff viewed through a notched mask will change from day to day. I'm actually a fence sitter, figuring out that we'll find out evenually, but this behavior makes me lean to the Farside (more than normally, that is).

Sorry, Phil, but you're addicted...

--Bill

Have been all my life, Bill.

Phil

What this talk about football? And continues to cheer "Near rim, near rim!" waving flags in each arm.

Tom,
If you wait until we can read the inscription on the slab, like Horton, you'll miss the distinction of the 'good scientist' who revises his conclusions as soon as new evidence compels it. The 'rocket scientists' in the MER team have done that now - so they are 'good scientists' - better late than never. Of course we never appeal to authority around here, so you should only change your view when the evidence convinces you, not the popular vote swing. Pando is a case in point - 'a good scientist' - right, Pando?

As far as I know only one person 'elected' me captain, ElkGroveDan, (and you know what they say about Californians! ). I'm sure I wasn't the first Near-rimmer, Tesh or Rodolfo were probably in there long before their geometry and Dilo's charts of the unchanging 'image' of Beacon finally compelled me to get down from the fence. In fact I think Shirley or somebody put me on the Near list before I ever formally embraced it. (Pity that much of this early history of the beacon debate was lost with the Victoria on the Horizon thread that somehow got lost or corrupted on Doug's server.) I think "cheerleader" is probably a better description of my role in this debate than captain, but I do like to think that I am also 'on the squad'. YAY, TEAM!!

O.K. Let's all observe a minute of sorrowful silence:......Click to view attachment
....

Now a minute of hysterical jubilation:.......Click to view attachment
.....

Right, now let's get back to Mars! How many in the Sponge Patrol would have picked a different rim, if they knew then what they know now? Fess up, how many 'good scientists' have we got as of July first?

:~( :~( :~( :~( :~(

It would pay the 'rocket scientists' in the MER team no disrespect to compare them to Albert Einstein who first formulated the cosmological constant, then deplored his error, then , albeit too late to personally take credit, was shown to have been correct in the first place.

Roll over, Albert.

Thanks, centsworth! Is a consolation to have such a parallel with my experience: I initially stated "near rim" based on parallax, then I changed idea because this looked odd to me and then...
Anyway, congratulation to the nearim team and now, for sure, after beagle the first stuff I wanna closely see is this baby!