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centsworth_II
QUOTE (Antonb @ Aug 22 2012, 08:39 AM) *
By the way, I do hope that breaking this record is on the list of remaining targets for Oppy to achieve....

In achieving the stated science goal of studying Cape Tribulation, Opportunity will surpass 40km.

"...the planned exploration route goes south along the rim fragment "Solander Point," to "Cape Tribulation," where clay minerals have been detected."

Click to view attachment
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mer/mult...y/pia13708.html
Antonb
QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Aug 22 2012, 02:14 PM) *
In achieving the stated science goal of studying Cape Tribulation, Opportunity will surpass 40km.

That's excellent, many thanks, I hadn't seen that.

(BTW, I apologise for my faux pas on guessing, which I've been made aware of. It won't happen again.)
fredk
Remember that there potentially are clays not far away here on CY, which are our primary goal. If we found something, you can bet we'd spend a long time studying them. So it's extremely hard to predict when we'd hit the distance record.
Tesheiner
QUOTE (SFJCody @ Aug 22 2012, 02:19 AM) *
A drive sol on 3049. If this is another 100m+er they'll put themselves about halfway down Cape York.

40m, according to the "telemetry". Can't verify that with the navcams because they look "underexposed" (JPEG stretching thing) and are of no use.

I though they would stop to have a look at the rock (meteorite?) or the vein but that was not the case. However, it looks like there are some pancam shots on the downlink queue: Muruntau (the vein), Goldstrike (the rock) and a color mosaic of Shoemaker Ridge.
RoverDriver
QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Aug 22 2012, 08:18 AM) *
40m, according to the "telemetry". Can't verify that with the navcams because they look "underexposed" (JPEG stretching thing) and are of no use.

I though they would stop to have a look at the rock (meteorite?) or the vein but that was not the case. However, it looks like there are some pancam shots on the downlink queue: Muruntau (the vein), Goldstrike (the rock) and a color mosaic of Shoemaker Ridge.


The odometry for B 3049 is about 40.8 meters. The drive was intended to be longer but I think we failed the second slip check because the terrain is so featureless that VO did not have anything to latch on and there are no rover tracks left because the soil is so hard. It doesn't look to me that glare in the NAVCAM was a problem (no glare in the VO Navcam thumbnails).

Paolo
Tesheiner
Oh, I was refering to the "post-drive" navcam mosaic images not the ones used for VO. They look too dark, at least the public JPEGs, to register the mosaic with the map background and "refine" the current position.
fredk
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Aug 22 2012, 04:42 PM) *
there are no rover tracks left because the soil is so hard

Wow, those tracks sure are hard to see:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...0M1.JPG?sol3049
Made even harder by low sun (conspiring with tilt of surface here), perhaps.
RoverDriver
QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Aug 22 2012, 09:10 AM) *
Oh, I was refering to the "post-drive" navcam mosaic images not the ones used for VO. They look too dark, at least the public JPEGs, to register the mosaic with the map background and "refine" the current position.


Yes, the post drive NAVCAM are really dark because the SUN is shining into the field of view. What I meant to say is that the VO failure should not be attributed to glare. Sorry I was in a hurry to go and see the excitement of the first drive on the other side of the planet. ;-)

Paolo
neorobo
Forgive me if this has already been posted (I did a quick search but can't seem to track down the specific posts), but I have a question about the glare. Has there been any publications or information NASA has published about the effects of glare on the visual odometry for Opportunity or Spirit? Has this been much of an issue on Mars for MER visodom? I have an understanding why glare affects feature tracking, I'm more interested in how it has affected Oppy or Spirit specifically. I'm in the process of writing a research proposal and this information would be very valuable. Even if it's just something qualitative to get the wheels turning, no pun intended wink.gif Thanks.

Rob
RoverDriver
I have never seen any VO image that was affected by glare from either rover. And tosol VO failure is not due to glare either. Typically we point the cameras down at about 30 deg below the horizon to
have a good view of the tracks. With such a low elevation angle it is difficult to have glare. Even Autonav pointing is pretty low as well. Here, as I was saying earlier, there were no features to track (remember the on-board processing uses 256x256 pixel images) and there were no track markings on the ground. Even if we had pointed teh NAVCAMs straight down it would have been likely that VO would have failed.

The glare in the post-drive NAVCAMs is mostly due to the dust deposition on the lens. Post drive NAVs are usually taken at -17 deg elevation and in early afternoon. Leave a digital camera for 8+ years in the desert, lens cap off, then try to take a picture late in the afternoon while pointing the camera at the horizon to the West. Assuming the shutter release still works after 8 years, that is. laugh.gif

One of the optical engineers (Reg Wilson) published a paper on the effects of dust deposits on the lens and CCD sensor. I don't have a reference, but if you look up Reg Wilson on the JPL web site very likely he has that paper listed.

Paolo
belleraphon1
Have we ever been on such hard ground?
Lower dust fraction possibly exposing clays minerals making then faintly visible from orbit?

Craig
RoverDriver
QUOTE (belleraphon1 @ Aug 23 2012, 02:44 AM) *
Have we ever been on such hard ground?
Lower dust fraction possibly exposing clays minerals making then faintly visible from orbit?

Craig


We have been on really hard packed soil but usually we leave at least some markings. Here we are leaving hardly any! Never seen anything like it.

Paolo
marsophile
In reply 430 in the Exploration of Cape York thread of the MarsRoverBlog open forum, Hortonheardawho has an animation showing tracks that apparently faded in the space of only 3 minutes.
Tesheiner
Here's (part of) the mosaic taken by the navcam on sol 3049 i.e. the current position. There's a piece of ejecta (?) on sight, better seen on this pancam picture.
Click to view attachment
fredk
This is another cool view. And we're starting to get a better look at the two dark smudges coming up:
Click to view attachment
In stereo, you can see that they're depressions, but very different from the crater in between them:
Click to view attachment
Perhaps they're related to Whim Creek?

And a closeup of Goldstrike (meteorite?) is down too:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...2M1.JPG?sol3049
RoverDriver
QUOTE (marsophile @ Aug 23 2012, 07:34 AM) *
In reply 430 in the Exploration of Cape York thread of the MarsRoverBlog open forum, Hortonheardawho has an animation showing tracks that apparently faded in the space of only 3 minutes.


Thanks for pointing me to this forum. I was not aware of it. The animation seems to be relative to Sol 3044, so it is the same kind of material we are currently driving on and there are barely any tracks visible. Oppy is driving on cement!

Paolo
stevesliva
The yellow forum had the unfortunate tendency to degenerate into xenopomorphizing rocks. High noise to signal.
belleraphon1
QUOTE (marsophile @ Aug 23 2012, 10:34 AM) *
In reply 430 in the Exploration of Cape York thread of the MarsRoverBlog open forum, Hortonheardawho has an animation showing tracks that apparently faded in the space of only 3 minutes.


Thanks Paolo and marsophile for your replies.

Was not aware of the forum above either.

Wow.... what a fascinating change!
neorobo
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Aug 23 2012, 02:22 AM) *
I have never seen any VO image that was affected by glare from either rover. And tosol VO failure is not due to glare either. Typically we point the cameras down at about 30 deg below the horizon to
have a good view of the tracks. With such a low elevation angle it is difficult to have glare. Even Autonav pointing is pretty low as well. Here, as I was saying earlier, there were no features to track (remember the on-board processing uses 256x256 pixel images) and there were no track markings on the ground. Even if we had pointed teh NAVCAMs straight down it would have been likely that VO would have failed.

The glare in the post-drive NAVCAMs is mostly due to the dust deposition on the lens. Post drive NAVs are usually taken at -17 deg elevation and in early afternoon. Leave a digital camera for 8+ years in the desert, lens cap off, then try to take a picture late in the afternoon while pointing the camera at the horizon to the West. Assuming the shutter release still works after 8 years, that is. laugh.gif

One of the optical engineers (Reg Wilson) published a paper on the effects of dust deposits on the lens and CCD sensor. I don't have a reference, but if you look up Reg Wilson on the JPL web site very likely he has that paper listed.

Paolo


Thanks for the reply Paolo, very useful information. I wonder, when operating the rover are lighting conditions a constraint on the time period it may drive (I'd think at some point the images become too dark to operate visual odometry properly), or if other things restrict it before it comes to that, like power?

Very interesting to see that the rover is barely leaving any tracks! I love that 8+ years later Opportunity is still amazing us.

Rob
belleraphon1
QUOTE (belleraphon1 @ Aug 24 2012, 05:51 AM) *
Thanks Paolo and marsophile for your replies.

Was not aware of the forum above either.

Wow.... what a fascinating change!



In an attempt to keep my own SNR level up (sometimes hard) could the ‘change’ seen from the Opportunity image 398419876 to 398420030 be just a lighting or filter effect?

Fading Wheel tracks????
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...H0F0006R0M1.JPG

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...H2F0006L0M1.JPG

Some mornings I really need to curb my enthusiasm.

Craig
fredk
Better to compare the two left frames or the two right frames to minimize viewing angle differences:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...0M1.JPG?sol3044
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...0M1.JPG?sol3044
I'd be surprized if this was a lighting effect, since at midday the sun's pretty high, and the effect we're seeing is not too far below the horizon, so not where you'd be catching reflections from the sun. Plus the two frames are only a couple of minutes apart. And they have identical filters.

IIRC, we have seen similar things over longer intervals after wind gusts. So one guess is we had a good strong gust between these two frames almost erase the tracks.

BTW, another lovely shadow-reaching-into-the-crater shot:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...0M1.JPG?sol3051
centsworth_II
QUOTE (fredk @ Aug 24 2012, 10:46 AM) *
...one guess is we had a good strong gust between these two frames almost erase the tracks....
Any sign of a cleaning event on the solar panels?
belleraphon1
Thanks fredk....

just not used to what seems (to me) such an abrupt change.

Craig
RoverDriver
QUOTE (neorobo @ Aug 24 2012, 04:01 AM) *
Thanks for the reply Paolo, very useful information. I wonder, when operating the rover are lighting conditions a constraint on the time period it may drive (I'd think at some point the images become too dark to operate visual odometry properly), or if other things restrict it before it comes to that, like power?

Very interesting to see that the rover is barely leaving any tracks! I love that 8+ years later Opportunity is still amazing us.

Rob


Lighting conditions have never been an issue for driving as we typically try to drive "blind" (no VO or Autonav). Lighting conditions are usually always analyzed when using the MI as we try to avoid frames where part of the target is in direct sunlight and part is in shadow. If it is required, we sometimes change the IDD configuration to use a different wrist position and very rarely we have moved teh time when the IDD sequence begins to have more favorable Sun position. This is what happened so far but I guess that our current position it might not be a bad idea to think about lighting conditions for driving as well.

Paolo
djellison
QUOTE (fredk @ Aug 24 2012, 07:46 AM) *
So one guess is we had a good strong gust between these two frames almost erase the tracks.


Looking at this near concrete like surface - it reminds me of desert pavement - ( http://www2.mcdaniel.edu/Biology/wildameri...sertgeolgy.html ) - lots of strong winds over time blow away what little dust is there and leave behind small pebbles etc settled into an almost hard packed surface.

Those winds I'd bet are fairly consistently high, what with a tens of miles run up from the East.

Thus - rover drives over a surface that's not been touched by anything but wind for Gy's - and pushes a few pebbles down, pushes a bit of dirt around. That wind is, very quickly, going to get that dirt out of there and 'rebuild' back to the pavement formation where the dirt is now hidden from the wind between the pebbles.

We saw it happen on tracks we re-visited outside Endurance crater - but here it's just happened much quicker.
belleraphon1
Thanks all for the comments.

It is just incredible to me that we have these phenomenal machines that MOVE into new environments.

Wow again. Luv this!
belleraphon1
I know that MOC and HRISE have shown us how dynamic Mars really is. Polar avalanches and moving dunes and CO2 evaporation at the S. Pole.
Just did not expect to see quick changes in Opportunity images.

Here we are on the east rim of an ancient crater that has seen (as Doug pointed out) G-years of wind erosion. And Oppy caught that process in the act.

How evocative is that! Stu, I think there is a poem here.

Irony is that I have always thought Mars is more active than we give him credit. then we see direct evidence of that and I question it.

Man.... I love these rovers and orbiters and all the people who make this happen.

And THIS forum....

Craig
Oersted
Isnīt Horton a member of this forum too? Iīd love for him to post his anim gif here as well. (Donīt really feel like following two different forums...)
RoverDriver
QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 24 2012, 10:18 AM) *
...
Those winds I'd bet are fairly consistently high, what with a tens of miles run up from the East.
...


Hey, winds, how a bout a dust cleaning? Power is still at the same level we have been having for the past 10 Sols or so. Dust factor has not changed!

Paolo
fredk
Well, here we are at about the midpoint down CY, and look at all the pretty gypsummy-looking veins:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...2M1.JPG?sol3054
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...0M1.JPG?sol3054
Phil Stooke
Finally we may have one big enough for a brushing.

Phil
Stu
Is that "Knobby's Head" starting to appear over the end of the Cape now..?

Click to view attachment
Tesheiner
I think so! smile.gif

Here's my take on the navcam mosaic. Man, I really like this place.
Click to view attachment
Phil Stooke
Yep, looks like it is.

Phil

climber
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Aug 27 2012, 06:07 PM) *
Hey, winds, how a bout a dust cleaning? Power is still at the same level we have been having for the past 10 Sols or so. Dust factor has not changed!

Paolo

Don't worry, be Oppy wink.gif
CosmicRocker
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Aug 27 2012, 11:07 AM) *
... Dust factor has not changed!
I guess we can't assume that wind erased the rover track after all.

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Aug 27 2012, 01:47 PM) *
... Man, I really like this place.
No kidding. I wouldn't mind sticking around here for a while, but I think we have at least 2 or 3 more drives before we get to the phyllosilicate area.
walfy
Those veins are very bright. Are these bright rocks thought to be of the same make as the Homestake rock? They seem much brighter here, totally blown highlights. I don't recall seeing anything like it.
Stu
Looks like Oppy has started to drive uphill, towards some ridges higher up...

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...IWP1211L0M1.JPG

She's on the trail of something, maybe...? smile.gif
Tesheiner
The name of some imaging sequences from today say something about it. wink.gif

03056::p1957::13::6::0::0::4::0::10::nav_2x1_site_vein_2bpp_pri57
03056::p2555::30::8::8::0::0::2::18::pancam_sinuous_vein_L257R12467


And just a quick snapshot from GE to put in context. I will properly update the map thread later on.
Click to view attachment

BTW, we crossed the 35km mark during today's drive.
climber
QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Aug 29 2012, 12:55 PM) *
BTW, we crossed the 35km mark during today's drive.

Nice, but this happened a mere 100m from the 34km mark blink.gif
Now, only 900m to catch up with Apollo 17 rover and 2 km to break Lunakhod 2 leading mark!
Go Oppy go and tell us what those veins are.
fredk
QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Aug 29 2012, 11:55 AM) *
The name of some imaging sequences from today say something about it.
Those should have been taken before the 3056 drive, when we were still at the 3053 location surrounded by all the pretty veins. Since we've moved inland tosol, I'm guessing that we're going after the putative clays, since we're now halfway along CY. I know who I'm rooting for to reach the clays first!
Stu
QUOTE (fredk @ Aug 29 2012, 02:50 PM) *
I'm guessing that we're going after the putative clays, since we're now halfway along CY. I know who I'm rooting for to reach the clays first!


Well, she's heading towards these...

Click to view attachment

... so maybe it's prospecting time... smile.gif
walfy
The rock from sol 3049 makes for a nice 3D.

Click to view attachment
Tesheiner
QUOTE (fredk @ Aug 29 2012, 03:50 PM) *
Those should have been taken before the 3056 drive, when we were still at the 3053 location surrounded by all the pretty veins.

Checked it and the pancam shot was taken at the previous site but the navcam was shot "mid-drive" more or less around the 35km mark.
dvandorn
Just have a curiosity (small C) -- if we do get to some phyllosilicates, what does Oppy have left to bring to bear for examination?

I imagine we can at least brush the rock surface and the APXS should still give us some good data. And we can take some MI images. But is the Mossbauer capable of getting good spectra anymore? And if not, how much info can we get with what we got left?

Again, just curious.

-the other Doug
fredk
After the attempt at a looooong MB integration at Greeley this winter, they decided that it was no longer useful, IIRC.
marsophile
QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 29 2012, 02:17 PM) *
if we do get to some phyllosilicates, what does Oppy have left to bring to bear for examination?


The APXS will give elemental composition, and the MI morphology, but that may not be enough for a definitive identification. In the long run, comparison of the weak signature at Cape York with the strong signature at Cape Tribulation may be very suggestive, i.e., If there is some distinctive feature at Cape York, and a lot more of it at Cape Tribulation, then Oppy may have identified something that is correlated with the phyllosilicates. Curiosity can then investigate similar features with its full complement of instruments.
Eutectic
Tesheiner's map from post #89 overlaid with the CRISM data from http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakda.../2011/3134.html .

Click to view attachment
Phil Stooke
The full set of filters in mutispectral images will help as well, though I don't know how much in this context.

Phil
Tesheiner
A 12m "bump" was executed on sol 3057.
Here's the "post-drive" navcam mosaic.
Click to view attachment
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