Marz
Dec 20 2011, 06:54 PM
QUOTE (Jaheira @ Dec 19 2011, 06:55 PM)
![*](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_images/ip.boardpr/post_snapback.gif)
Is it just me, or does that sharp, young crater in the top right of the image below have gullies in its walls that look remarkably similar to those in craters on Mars? The debate has been raging for some years now whether Martian crater gullies are formed by dry flow or by the flow of brine. I'm not suggesting for one moment that there's liquid flowing on the surface of Vesta, but the similarity of gullies here might suggest that most, if not all, Martian gullies formed via a dry mechanism.
I noticed that same feature and assumed it was a landslide triggered by the same mechanism that created the apparent fault above the rim. As to what caused the fault, I'm not sure.
I believe the "dry flow" mechanism for small scale flows of sediment on craters of Mars requires dry ice as the volatile that sublimates and then causes unweathered sediment to be exposed, making a dark band. I don't think the landslide on Vesta pictured here would be applicable to those discussions.
stevesliva
Dec 21 2011, 06:05 PM
volcanopele
Dec 28 2011, 04:25 AM
14 more names have been approved for use on Vesta, including the other two craters in the "snowman"
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/HotTopics/ind...s-on-Vesta.htmlI've updated my labeled Vesta map to include these new names
Click to view attachment
Greg Hullender
Jan 1 2012, 09:51 PM
QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Dec 2 2011, 10:06 AM)
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Supposedly that delay was running up against the window from Vesta to Ceres, so I suspect there may not be much more leeway to stay at Vesta. Perhaps someone who knows for sure will chime in.
--Greg
Sure enough, I got the following from Marc Rayman, which he invited me to share here:
QUOTE
We have quite a bit of technical flexibility to shift the Vesta departure. You're correct that we launched relatively late in the multiyear launch period for reaching both Vesta and Ceres, but that does not impose a significant constraint now. You may recall that our prelaunch model for the solar array power as a function of heliocentric range was demonstrated in flight to be conservative. Thanks to the ion propulsion system, we translated that power margin into the more operationally and scientifically useful resource of residence time at Vesta. But there has always been another constraint, and that is funding. Our mission timeline includes reaching Ceres in February 2015 not for reasons of celestial mechanics but because that is the schedule upon which the budget was formulated. The celestial mechanics is such that the time to travel from Vesta to Ceres is pretty insensitive to the departure date for up to ~ 0.5 years later than July 2012. But leaving later would mean an extension to the primary mission, and that is not budgeted. The simple reality, which I know you recognize, is that funding is extremely (perhaps even uniquely) tight these days.
As soon as we determined the Vesta pole during the approach phase, we knew what it meant for seeing the north pole, but our plan to depart in July 2012 has not changed. Our agreement with NASA HQ (formalized in our level 1 requirements) has always been that we would image at least 80% of the surface of Vesta at 100 m/px in our panchromatic channel and at least three color filters. We have already done better than that, so it is not obvious that we have to see farther north, much as one might consider it to be neat to do so.
In case this appears to be inconsistent with Emily's tweet about what Chris Russell said here at the AGU, let me be be explicit about it. It is correct that we would need to delay departure in order to see all the way to the north pole. That is not the same as saying we will delay departure.
While plans may change, we remain scheduled for departure in July. We already have fabulous data on Vesta, and we certainly will have even more by then. It certainly would be nice to see the entire surface, but even if we don't, there's no doubt that what we will have seen at Vesta will be exceptionally valuable.
Hope everyone has a happy (and interesting) New Year!
--Greg
Holder of the Two Leashes
Jan 2 2012, 08:20 AM
Thanks Greg.
I'd be interested to know how far north the project scientists think that the antipode(s) of the one or two giant southern impacts are, and the chances of them being observed before the end. Or perhaps they've already been spotted?
algorimancer
Jan 3 2012, 01:42 PM
Spacedaily has an article up today (http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Space_Mountain_Produces_Terrestrial_Meteorites_999.html) that states with regard to Dawn's Vesta mission that "no one expected a 13-mile high mountain, two and a half times higher than Mount Everest". Considering the earlier Hubble results, they probably should have fact-checked that line -- or were they mislead by a press release?
Greg Hullender
Jan 5 2012, 03:42 PM
New Dawn Journal:
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_12_30_11.aspNice info about the challenges of maintaining such a low orbit around such an irregular body. Also nice to learn that they haven't had to use even one day of their 40-day reserve. (The buffer in the science schedule to allow for things to go wrong.) If I'm interpreting that right, they essentially get a 40-day extended mission at Vesta for free, which is kind of cool.
By the way, this is my 1,000th post at UMSF, which is also kind of cool.
--Greg
stevesliva
Jan 5 2012, 09:02 PM
What a tease to link to the image of the day after discussing the wonderful LAMO images... because none of them are there yet.
Phil Stooke
Jan 5 2012, 09:51 PM
stevesliva
Jan 5 2012, 10:01 PM
I know there are some kicking around. Just hoping for the image of the day to start up again.
pablogm1024
Jan 6 2012, 02:49 PM
QUOTE (stevesliva @ Jan 5 2012, 11:01 PM)
![*](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_images/ip.boardpr/post_snapback.gif)
I know there are some kicking around. Just hoping for the image of the day to start up again.
They are expected to restart on Monday, January 9th.
pablogm
pablogm1024
Jan 9 2012, 02:54 PM
QUOTE (pablogm1024 @ Jan 6 2012, 03:49 PM)
![*](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_images/ip.boardpr/post_snapback.gif)
They are expected to restart on Monday, January 9th.
Indeed, IOTD has restarted
here, even if the gallery page does not seem to be updating properly.
Enjoy,
pablogm
stevesliva
Jan 16 2012, 08:08 PM
Marz
Jan 24 2012, 09:39 PM
Today's image is a nice 3-D anaglyph of impact craters from a binary asteroid impact:
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/imageo...p?date=20120124
stevesliva
Jan 26 2012, 06:28 PM
Phil Stooke
Feb 5 2012, 03:49 AM
Some pretty clear flows on Vesta in the latest image:
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images...TD-148-full.jpgProbably the clearest I've seen so far.
Phil
Marz
Feb 14 2012, 10:14 PM
QUOTE (stevesliva @ Jan 26 2012, 12:28 PM)
![*](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_images/ip.boardpr/post_snapback.gif)
Comparing Vesta's axial tilt of 27 to Ceres with 3, would Ceres be much more likely to retain ice at the poles. Could vapor sublimating from the equatorial regions on Ceres be deposited as layers of frost at the poles, perhaps forming ice caps, or is the surface gravity far too low for this to occur?
ngunn
Feb 14 2012, 11:07 PM
Good question. I hope you get an answer from someone better informed than I am but I'll have a go. I think there's plenty of ice there. There certainly is on Mars although it's a warmer place. Surfaces exposed to the vacuum of space get dessicated but you don't have to dig far below the surface to find the stuff as Phoenix proved on Mars. Will we see it on the surface of Ceres? I don't know. It may have sublimed off all lit surfaces. You might need an impactor (or a hand torch for a walk in the dark).
Why do I always get attracted to OT discussions
![rolleyes.gif](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
?
Ceres: somebody start a topic - we're almost on the way.
Greg Hullender
Feb 16 2012, 02:12 AM
I see that we've got four more months at Vesta, but we're three years away from Ceres.
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/timeline.aspI suppose I knew that the main mission plan ends abruptly at Ceres, but I was surprised to see that it calls for only five months of observations. That barely seems like enough time to get into LAMO. I hope the Vesta results are compelling enough to get an extended mission approved because it seems like they'll need it before they actually have much in the way of solid results from Ceres.
--Greg
Phil Stooke
Feb 16 2012, 02:58 AM
The short time at Ceres in the primary mission is the main reason that any extended mission will stay at Ceres rather than going on somewhere else. They will need lots of extra time for global high resolution mapping.
Phil
scalbers
Feb 26 2012, 06:00 PM
Here's the released map with feature names put on top warped according to the map projection. Of course the credit info in the lower left wouldn't fit this warping scheme...
Click to view attachmentSteve
stevesliva
Feb 29 2012, 12:08 AM
john_s
Feb 29 2012, 03:42 AM
My impression, especially from those new images, is that calling it a "tholus" was premature- it looks like just a random hill that happens to have a dark-rayed impact crater superposed on it. Of course there still must be *something* special about it to produce those dark rays...
John
Gsnorgathon
Feb 29 2012, 11:20 PM
But doesn't "tholus" just mean hill, with regard to how it formed? The topo image sure makes it look like a hill.
john_s
Mar 1 2012, 12:37 AM
That might be technically true, but "tholus" on other bodies has typically been used to denote what appears to be a volcanic construct (e.g. Inachus Tholus on Io, Hecates Tholus on Mars). Are there any counter-examples, of other non-volcanic "tholi"?
John
Gsnorgathon
Mar 1 2012, 02:23 AM
Umm... how about
Lucaria Tholus? OK, yeah. That's what I thought. But according to the planetary names folks, they are playing by the rules:
Tholus, tholi (TH) - Small domical mountain or hill. Maybe they need a new feature name. What's Latin for "bump"?
pablogm1024
Mar 2 2012, 10:10 AM
QUOTE (Gsnorgathon @ Mar 1 2012, 03:23 AM)
![*](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_images/ip.boardpr/post_snapback.gif)
...But according to the planetary names folks, they are playing by the rules:
Tholus, tholi (TH) - Small domical mountain or hill...
Early on in the Vesta orbital phase, the Framing Camera operations team, far more concerned about correct orientation of the images and meaningful navigation than about scientific or toponymic soundness, concocted a series of informal names that mainly served the purpose of designating easily identifiable features. One of these nicknames was "The Snowman", which has now become part of the popular culture about Vesta. Another one was "Dark Volcano".
Cheers.
Phil Stooke
Mar 2 2012, 02:25 PM
"tholus" on other bodies has typically been used to denote what appears to be a volcanic construct
True! But these names are supposed to be purely descriptive, not carrying any genetic implications. I agree the term is mainly used for smaller volcanic hills, but it doesn't have to be. Possible counter-example: Scandia Tholi, Mars, a rag-tag collection of hills that don't look like volcanic shields or cones to me.
Also - new names added on Tuesday:
http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/images/vesta.pdfPhil
Astro0
Apr 19 2012, 05:05 AM
Phil Stooke
Apr 19 2012, 12:03 PM
Yes, and they have now released over 200 pictures of the day.
Phil
charborob
Apr 19 2012, 12:14 PM
In LAMO, Dawn seems to be taking only nadir-pointing images. At least, those that were published are of this type, unless I missed something. Do they sometimes slew the spacecraft in order to take oblique images?
Phil Stooke
Apr 19 2012, 05:03 PM
LAMO is all about the composition-mapping instrument, with imaging just riding along. They have to look down pretty much all the time, I think.
Phil
pablogm1024
Apr 21 2012, 03:16 PM
QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 19 2012, 05:03 PM)
![*](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_images/ip.boardpr/post_snapback.gif)
LAMO is all about the composition-mapping instrument, with imaging just riding along. They have to look down pretty much all the time, I think.
I can confirm Phil's comment. As Marc Rayman has mentioned several times on his blog, the Gamma Ray and Neutron Detector (GRaND) is the prime instrument in this phase. This instrument will provide the elemental composition of the surface (up to 1 meter depth) thanks to the nuclear emissions induced by the background cosmic radiation. The problem is that these emissions are very weak, and even with a detector as finely tuned as GRaND it requires an extremely large amount of integration time to get above the noise.
The off-nadir imaging, which is critical for the stereographic reconstruction of the surface, will continue in the second HAMO phase later this year.
Regards,
pablogm
Juramike
Apr 25 2012, 06:59 PM
A really nice "uber"-image release today, with lots of neat related image and caption releases:
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/feature_stories/a...ts_revealed.aspA gorgeous shot of Aquilia: h
ttp://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/aquilia_area_color.aspVibidia Crater:
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/vibidia_crater_color.asp(obviously the result from a Pocket Tanks Chaos Grenade)
Hungry4info
May 7 2012, 07:58 PM
Mariner9
May 8 2012, 05:11 PM
I suspect that the news conference is timed to coincide with DAWN results being printed in this week's upcoming issue of Science. I went to the lecture at Caltech last week and Carol Raymond mentioned the publication, and artfully dodged at least one question from the audience that apparently would have prematurely revealed something that will be included in the articles.
I have been collecting the "special issues" of Science on the planetary missions for the last 20 years. The articles are a bit of a tough read compared to something more mainstream like Scientific American, but it just makes me feel a bit closer to the real discovery process.
For anyone not aware of it, you can locate back issues at
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/by/year.
And, after a lot of searching, you can find how to order issues at:
http://www.sciencemag.org/site/help/readers/order.xhtml For some reason I have had mixed sucess with the online forms, sometimes I get acess and can do it online, and sometimes end up with a hard copy PDF file instead. When that happens I just call the toll free number and do it the old fashion "talk to someone" way.
Holder of the Two Leashes
May 10 2012, 04:42 PM
News conference set to start in one hour twenty minutes from this posting.
NASA TV Link
Floyd
May 10 2012, 05:58 PM
About to start, 98+ viewers
Explorer1
May 10 2012, 06:00 PM
Starting now...
Paolo
May 10 2012, 06:05 PM
meanwhile, papers have appeared in Science
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6082.toc (behind the paywall)
ElkGroveDan
May 10 2012, 06:31 PM
Can we go now? I want to see Ceres.
Holder of the Two Leashes
May 10 2012, 06:44 PM
So, I guess I'll go ahead and hang on to my little diogenite samples. A bit more confidence in their source.
DrShank
May 10 2012, 06:51 PM
QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ May 10 2012, 12:31 PM)
![*](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_images/ip.boardpr/post_snapback.gif)
Can we go now? I want to see Ceres.
No need to worry! staying longer at Vesta wont change our arrival time at Ceres.
p
dilo
May 10 2012, 06:56 PM
Interesting conference, though I see less than a dozen people in the room (some of them appear annoyed too!)...
DrShank
May 10 2012, 07:26 PM
QUOTE (dilo @ May 10 2012, 12:56 PM)
![*](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_images/ip.boardpr/post_snapback.gif)
Interesting conference, though I see less than a dozen people in the room (some of them appear annoyed too!)...
a lot of reporters like to do this sort of thing remotely now. or simply call beofre or after. kinda weird talking to a half empty room sometimes . . .
Paolo
May 11 2012, 07:05 AM
QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ May 10 2012, 08:31 PM)
![*](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_images/ip.boardpr/post_snapback.gif)
Can we go now? I want to see Ceres.
a quick remark on the conference: I noticed that the speakers pronounced Ceres as something like "series". the correct pronunciation should be something like "Che-reh-ss". it's Latin, it's not American-English!
centsworth_II
May 11 2012, 12:44 PM
It is interesting to know the correct Latin pronunciation but I don't think that makes the American-English pronunciation incorrect.
charborob
May 11 2012, 01:35 PM
FWIW, in French, we write "Cérès" and pronounce it "say-ress" (short "say" and stress on "ress").
Edit: In classical Latin, the letter "C" was pronounced "K", but I don't think anybody would want to pronounce "kay-ress".
elakdawalla
May 11 2012, 03:40 PM
QUOTE (dilo @ May 10 2012, 11:56 AM)
![*](http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/style_images/ip.boardpr/post_snapback.gif)
Interesting conference, though I see less than a dozen people in the room (some of them appear annoyed too!)...
I've noticed that conferences held at HQ are particularly poorly attended physically, though there are clearly quite a lot of people on the phone. I prefer following briefings on the phone because that way I can study the released images as I listen to the scientists talk about them. I think it's kind of a waste of both money and of busy people's time to fly all those people to HQ for briefings when they could conduct them perfectly well remotely.
Though this time I wasn't on the phone at all, as I was playing in the desert with rovers instead
Phil Stooke
Jul 24 2012, 01:25 AM
Dawn isn't in LAMO now, it's moved back upstairs, but there are still lots of great pics from lower down on the website. Today's image shows a crater with a shadow and detail in the shadow brought out by special processing. Here I have combined the two versions of their image.
Phil
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