Finally the truth is out - Oppy landed on Arrakis.

Those aren't small dunes, they're sandworms...!

Hands up if you've gone to the top of your stairs and taken the heatshielf from the MPF Hotwheels pack and dropped it to see if it always lands the same way

Warning. Castor Sugar+Drinking Chocolat experimentation may follow

Doug

I assume this will be part of a 3 x 2 mosaic or something like that within the next 24 hrs or so.

I'm very much AFK from tomorrow thru to probably Dec 31st - so unless the rest of that mosaic comes down tonight - then it'll have to wait

Doug

In what image does it show Opps heading after the heat sheild observations?

This sort of direction



Due south basically

Doug

Latest shot of the heatshield is at http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...A3P2359L7M1.JPG . The sun's reflection off the interior is so bright that it's saturated a large part of the photo; but one can clearly see little shattered bits of the heatshield scattered around the landing area.

I wonder what one of those springs would fetch on Ebay

Doug

You mean *after* someone brings them back from Mars?

'Buyer Collects'



Actually - didnt the RSA sell one of its lunakhod rovers for a few thousand $'s - with the 'Buyer Collects' proviso?

Doug

In that case the heck with the spring, go with the whole rover

HAPPY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!



Now sod off and eat Turkey

Doug

Turkey not done yet :mad: But look at all that junk strewn around. I remember when there were some cranks thinking they were seeing machine parts and springs in the Spirit images and well, there are some real springs How big is that large one on the lower left side of the main heat shield part?

I'm no more reading this forum since several months... <:-)
Your images are very interesting! Maybe Opportunity took enough pictures so somebody can produce 2 color photos of the heatshield taken from close angles, so I could combine them in a 3d-color-anaglyph? It would be cool!

I also would like to build a little animation of the heatshield: are there enough different angles pictures to allow this? Can you give the links, or just link the thumbnails?


BTW, what is the "Genesis" you are talking about?

"Genesis" ist the poor little solar wind sample return spacecraft that crashed into the Utah desert in September 2004. BTW, is there any news on the sample quality yet?

Analyst

I heard some samples were salvagable, but I haven't heard about any results from them.

Opinions seem to vary on whether the Genesis samples are scientifically retrievable. The team itself is insisting that many of the collectors for oxygen and nitrogen isotopes in the solar wind -- the top two science goals of the mission, by far -- are indeed retrievable, and that the same may be true of many of the lesser goals (such as noble gas analysis). Others -- such as SpaceDaily's professional curmudgeon Jeffrey Bell -- say that, since the solar wind atoms are embedded only 1/50 of a micron deep in the collector plates (that's less than 1 millionth of an inch) and the latter were exposed to atmosphere, humidity and dust, no scientist in his right mind will trust the results. However, I've talked personally with Donald Brownlee -- the PI for the Stardust comet-dust retrieval mission -- and he thinks that it may very well be possible to adequately clean the top surfaces of the collector plates of contamination without removing such shallowly embedded solar wind atoms; as he points out, anyone who washes a glass window with a non-abrasive substance routinely does just that. So, until I learn more, I reserve judgment.

Brownless, by the way, also says that an examination of the construction records for the Stardust capsule make it pretty certain that the upside-down parachute switch error in the Genesis capsule has not been repeated for the Stardust capsule -- but he also says that, since the dust grains in Stardust are embedded 1 to several cm deep in a sheet of relatively nonbrittle aerogel, they are more likely to come through a crash in scientifically acceptable shape, unless the capsule crashes onto the salt flats after the latter have been recently rained on. However, finding and retrieving the capsule quickly would be vital -- and the Stardust capsule will land at night.

This is all good to hear. After reading his recent article, my suggestion to Mr. Bell is that he seek therapy, as he seems generally angry at the world. However, his concerns are often not born out by more reputable scientists. My suggestion is that he sometimes look on the bright side of things, or he find some private place to go and be really, really sad where he can't bother anyone else.

That picture is a great Christmas present Doug. Thanks, how did you know what I wanted!

James

In my own experience, Bell is right about 80-90% of the time. ANYONE who has to deal habitually with NASA naturally turns into a cynic (including Reagan's science advisor George Keyworth, who called it "the only governmental agency which lies not just sometimes but most of the time"). As for Genesis, we have yet to see who's really correct.

Latest shots fo the heatshield at http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...cam/2004-12-27/ . Is that white sheet which overlays the biggest fragment the actual heat-resistant cloth layer? If so, it came through Martian entry pristine-looking, with no visible sign of charring.

Also some nice closeups of the actual impact crater, such as http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...A3P2360L4M1.JPG -- confirming again that the shield, despite coming down fast enough to shatter itself, barely punched into the solid rock layer covered by just a few cm of sand -- and some more of the second-largest shield fragment, such as http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...A3P2360L7M1.JPG .

Do you think it would be safe enough to drive the rover into the "crater"? Perhaps they could perform a trenching operation inside the impacted area to see how far down the bedrock is.

Looking at the heatshield in it's current state.....I think it may literally be "inside out"... the shiny layer we see was part of an insulating layer on the inside of the heatshield.

You can just make out a kind of rough textured surface on the other side which I think might be the abaltive material on the front of the heatshield.

It's a little easier to see in this image:

Anybody have a guess at the heatshield's approximate speed when it impacted?

Going back through the timeline, it looks like the heatshield separates from the backshell at somewhere between 25,000 and 30,000 feet in alitutde, 20 seconds after chute deployment (the chute deploys at 30,000 feet and 1,000 mph). I wonder what the terminal velocity is for such an object...relatively flat and light - how much would wind resistance have slowed it down even though there is less air than on earth, but counteracted somewhat by lower gravity? Genesis came in pretty hot and didn't even have the benefit of a parachute, but it impacted at "only" 200 mph.

I agree that it looks like the big piece is turned inside-out. I would bet that the thermal blankets go on the inside. The schematic on the MER website also indicates that there is a "radar absorber" in the heatshield - is that part of the blanket's function?


Piece "B" looks like it has some charred surfaces readily visible.

Yes, I have since been taken to the woodshed by another member of my Planetary Science webgroup (who shall remain nameless) regarding my misinterpretation of what I was looking at:

"The 'white' sheet is the base layer of a series of sheets of material,
capped by a reflective mylar layer - the innermost part of a
multi-layer thermal protection system. This consists of a structural
frame, an outside ablative layer of what Gary Allen advises is
ground-up cork and resin binder, and an inner thermal blanket to stop
residual heat getting through to the rover.

"What is perhaps confusing you is that the piece of the wreckage that
is standing up on its side has been almost flipped inside out.

" http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/1P1...78L234567M1.JPG

"The dark 'knobbly' material is the heated and partly ablated TPS. The
broken edge at the left shows the paler-brown surface that has been
altered by re-entry heat compared to the thicker dark unaltered
material. You can see parts of the mylar layer, and the underlying
white blanket that has been everted over it."

Well, that's what I get for not actually looking up the structure of the heat shield -- I was thinking vaguely of the flexible entry-thermal blankets that cover those parts of the Shuttle exposed to minimum heating.

Has the rover rolled right up to one of the heat shield fragments? I find it impossible to interpret the little thingie at the top of this Forward Hazcam image any other way: http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...FRR2761R0M1.JPG .

Also, what's with the spot on the left front wheel where some of the aluminum tread is missing? I know that there was one patch on each wheel where it was deliberately omittted -- but this missing patch seems irregularly bordered, and there's what looks like a crack leading away from one of its edges.

The image in question is actually from Sol 54, or thereabouts; you're looking at the egress ramp on the lander and part of an airbag. I know, it threw me for a minute, too! I guess Oppy is clearing out its memory banks for some reason.

The tread mark track at the 11 o'clock position reveals they may have gone a little too close to the wreckage. It gives the appearance that at least one side became slightly elevated into the air.

There is a small amount of dirt in a pile at the base of the debris as if the wreckages were pushed further into the ground. I wonder if this is from a possible collision with the rover or if was always present?

I don't see anything wrong with the wheel. I hope they re-evaluate the risk vs. reward at the site. There are a number of sharp elevated angles which do not resemble type of rock. Dragging a wheel is one thing but dragging a piece of debris around would be a terrible way for this rover to go out.

In re:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...FRR2761R0M1.JPG

This image was made in Eagle crater next to the lander platform, something like 9 months ago. It doesn't show any 'wreckage' of any kind.

Also, the wheel tread has a section where it was attached to the landing platform. That section is the one visible on the left front wheel in that image.

I don't think any of the heatshield debris poses any danger to the rover, unless it actually collides with a large piece head-on... Nevertheless I doubt they will attempt to drive the rover over the large pieces of course

They are planning to do some IDD work with the soil that was disturbed by the heatshield crash. Also, they may do some work with the rock found nearby that resembles the 'Bounce Rock' they found close to Eagle crater.

Also, this image shows the assembly -- it does look like it has turned inside out. Notice the shiny foil-like material on the inside.

What most likely happened was that the shield came down nose first, the nose hit the ground and edges came down some milliseconds later. The nose shot back up, tearning the saucer apart and turning it inside out, and a sector broke away and landed nearby. And as a result there is a flat crater where it did a nice belly-flop.

And not to beat this subject to death, but in case anyone was wondering, the mark on the ground is the start of a trench that Oppy dug, on purpose. Again, months ago.

Oog. That same guy on the Planetary Sciences website (curse him!) has pointed out that the date of that Hazcam photo is incorporated into its ID number -- and that it is indeed one of the rover's earliest photos, disgorged from the back recesses of its memory at this late date. (Which makes one wonder how much else is still stuffed back there.) The latest Navcam shots, however, do confirm that the rover is gradually making its way closer.

(It's also a lot easier to understand how the heat shield could have turned itself inside-out on impact when you consider how shallow a cone it actually is.)

No time to stop.............. they've driven past the heatshield.

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...AJP0645L0M1.JPG

...fairly close to the other fragment now:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...AJP0645R0M1.JPG

I love that you can see Endurance Crater in the background, and even see the rover's tracks all the way to the horizon. Nice.

Looking at the new view of the main shield fragment, I can see why they are passing it by. I would bet that those blankets could blow around in the wind. Not something you'd want to get your antennas and camera masts stuck in!

Can't see if the fragment has the protective side of the shield upwards.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...AJP0645R0M1.JPG

If it has, then they most likely will do some MI work on it

Looks to me like this piece is twisted. The fragment toward the top/left of the frame looks charred and is convex. The fragment on the right looks concave and appears to have some of the insulating blanket still attached -- the blanket also appears to be caught on/wrapped around the piece that runs across the bottom of the picture - which I think is a small section of the large ring that circles the heatshield and attaches it to the upper part of the aeroshell.

The material is fairly stiff, I doubt there is anything to blow around in the wind, especially in the thin Martian atmosphere. A parachute would be a different story of course, but the main reason they're driving around the big fragment is that the smaller fragment's scorched outer layer is easily accessible for IDD work. They of course are also imaging the big fragment in different angles.

Eagle Crater! Egads, thanks for the correction Pando.

Edit:
I should have read Mhowards post too. Whoops!

Looks like they are approaching the fragment

Looks like burnt toast ..... kind of crispy.

In 3D:

Pancam closeup anaglyph:

belated happy birthday doug!

by the way:

new route map available:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/04...heatshield.html

Whoah! Color.

The ablative material looks like scorched carpet

Latest: There are indications that there is a possible dust storm developing. The power levels have dropped quite dramatically at around Sol 330 for Opportunity and is somewhat worrisome. At Gusev things are trending similarly although it's a Sol or so later. This is getting interesting as it may even mean a global dust storm.

Uh ohhh

How much are the drop in power?

Interesting mosaic of the heatshield impact crater on the JPL MER site (excerpted below). It certainly looks as though the heatshield hit almost completely flat. I did some very rough calculations on the terminal velocity of the heatshield in Mars' atmosphere (assuming a rough surface area of 10.5 m^2 and a mass of 78 kg)...it looks like the terminal velocity at Mars surface for such an object would be on the order of 120 mph. Didn't make much of a dent, did it? -- but the energy sure bent the hell out of the heatshield!!

It's hardly surprising that it came down upright -- it was, after all, shaped so that the airflow itself would stabilize the lander during entry. As for its barely penetrating the surface: I repeat that this entire plain, for hundreds of km, is apparently just a layer of basalt sand a few cm thick covering a flat surface of soft rock that's being gradually eroded away by the sand blowing across it.

Up close and personal

Real up close and personal!