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A Mars Rover Update From Steve Squyres ( April 14 2008 ) ( 13.2 MB )
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A Mars Rover Update From Steve Squyres

Airdate: Monday, April 14, 2008
Running Time: 00:28:52
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Jack

[quote name='nprev' date='Apr 15 2008, 10:45 PM' post='112364']
The cliff is an extremely tempting and of course scientifically significant target; is this the time to roll the dice?

It would not even be a roll of the dice! Yes they bogged the rover. It happens when you drive over excavated holes, on Mars as on Earth. What I don't understand is that the direction of the drive was down towards the bottom of the scree, not towards the cliffs where there seems to be secure bedrock leading to what seems to be a feasible slope to the cliff face. I still punt on finger problems with distance and slippage when trying to go back and MI the scuffs as I cannot believe that they deliberately crossed the excavations.
It would be helpful if they would do updates when these incidents occur but I guess they have their hands full extracting the rover.

I really can't see the value in examining cobbles of unknown provenance when all those deep layers beckon.

I remember being surprised and a little disappointed when Opportunity didn't take a closer look at this large pile before heading into Erebus.
Click to view attachment

Well, after the attempt to exit the "quackmire" on sol 1502 there was no other one during this week and I fear there won't be any during the weekend too.
As already noted by Horton on the other forum, Opportunity was unable to unstow the arm after that "drive" and a second attempt on sol 1504 failed too. A third attemp is scheduled for today (sol 1505).

This is not the appropriate time to backtrack and do that. The cobbles and other sporadics should have been examined visually and chemically a couple of years ago during the traverse _to_ Victoria when Oppy was within meters of the rocks.

--Bill

Given that one can not go back in time - when would be the appropriate time to 'backtrack' and look at them?

Doug

There were quite a few cobbles just on the northern rim of Victoria, so they would be a good place to start, only a few days drive away from Duck Bay. After that, I don't think driving back north is necessary. I would do more of the circumnavigation of Victoria, clockwise from those cobbles, looking at the capes again for interesting stratigraphy - is Cape Verde really the only place where we have that deep layered band? Then, head south or southeast into new territory. There's just as much chance of finding meteorites or ejecta out there as there was further north, with the added advantage of potentially interesting new outcrops.

Phil

The cobbles in the D-Star panorama , taken near the very small blocky crater along the north rim of Victoria, definitely caught my eye while they were up there. I'd love to see those up close.

The third attempt to unstow the arm seems to have been a failure too:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...ABP1151L0M1.JPG

Should we begin to get nervous?- What are the possible failure modes here?

I wouldn't yet; these guys are good!

Well it looks to me like the problem is with the shoulder joint again. I find the fact that it moved a bit then stopped a bit worrying, the usual problem with the shoulder motor causes it to stall at the beginning. I think there is a very real possibility that the second winding could have broken during deployment which would be very bad news indeed, especially given the current position of the arm (not stowed yet not in a useful deployed position)

Looks like they'll try another unstow on SOL 1507

That's what happened when the first winding died....followed by 3 months of not moving.

Arhgh.

Is there some sort of balance or level sensor, i.e., if the rover is in a precarious tilt, is there a sensor that would keep the IDD from deploying and potentially tipping the rover further?

There is an accelerometer that will tell the rover its own orientation - but even if there were code for 'if tilt > x degrees, don't use IDD' - firstly, we've seen the IDD used on slopes like this - and worse. Secondly, the IDD started to deploy, then stuck at an off-nominal point, and thirdly, any such safety code would get culled when trying to deploy for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th time etc.

Doug

The latest Planetary society monthly report Jake Matijevic said that Oppy could not stay besides Capo Verde for very long because of the limited solar power available at that location. I think that he was also concerned that less power would be available at that location in subsequent months.

Can Oppy survive on the steep South facing slopes at its current location for the rest of the Martian Winter?

I would prefer to see Oppy drive out of Duck bay and onto Cape Frio so that it could spend the 3 months taking a panorama of the cliffs on the North West side of Victoria crater. I guess that a potential problem is that shaking during the drive could further damage Oppy's partialy deployed IDD arm.

A long term issue for Oppy if the IDD can not be made to work is that Oppy would have to find worthwhile jobs to do that would not require the use of the IDD (or of the MiniTES given that that is also not working). A useful task for Oppy might be to complete the circumnavigation of Victoria crater and and take more of those panoramas I like so much.

Currently Oppy is on a mostly east-facing slope, (actually a bit east-southeast facing), so that shouldn't be a serious problem in coming months. Also we're still far enough away from Verde that it shouldn't shade us even at midwinter. But I sure hope the Quackmire doesn't become our long-term home...

Looks like today's attempt to unstow the IDD failed as well :'(

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...ABP1151L0M1.JPG

Yup.
I'm looking forward a status report to get some details on this issue.

Also note how deeply those wheels seem to be dug in. Maybe not as bad as Purgatory, but still not great.

If (sorry, WHEN) they get out of the Quackmire, I wonder if they'll abandon the attempt to get closer to the cliff wall.

I'm interested in why they took that downward turn to this location. It didn't look like the best route to me. There was a nice rocky route across the bay just a bit higher up. But they would have had much more data to use than the superficial view I have.

Phil

OK. Two things...

1) I'm feeling guilty... just after I did the 'Oppy entering VC' image the dust storm hit, and now just after doing the 'Oppy at Cape Verde' image the wheels and IDD get stuck. I know that SS never wears MER t-shirts in case it's bad luck, I think I might have to start leaving the SFX images until after the event.

2) Can anyone identify the direction this image was taken. The file name doesn't give any clues. Maybe it is, but it just doesn't look like its from Sol 1506 and from inside VC.
Click to view attachment

Astro0

While I'm at it...
Here's a nice view: The Road Less Travelled perhaps!
Click to view attachment
Astro0

Nor to me. All I could come up with was that, even if they followed the exposed rock northwards towards the cliff, and then drove downslope, perhaps they'd still have to drive on a sand covered surface to get to the target destination farther down. It's hard to tell for sure from the imagery. Perhaps they decided that the direct route had a better surface or slope. All this is pure speculation based on the imagery and little more. Like Tesheiner, I'm starving for an official update...

Astro0: That also struck me as an odd view. But you can see that rocky "island" near the centre of your frame also near the upper left of this navcam frame:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...00P1961R0M1.JPG

It's a Pancam frame looking due west (and a little up).

Thanks mhoward and fredk.
It just looked so odd and the "horizon" looked so distant, but of course it was just the rim of the crater.
That outcrop seemed to have some nice layering too.

I've got to get myself MMB and download everything one day. It would make life easier.
mhoward: how big would that download be now for everything from both rovers?

Thanks
Astro0

It's almost 20GB now just for the raw JPGs. My how the gigabytes go by.

I'm working on a version that will allow folks to play without downloading so much. But I wouldn't expect it soon... got other software priorities at the moment.

To put this mosaic into perspective I tried to stitch these images with some ones looking towards Cabo Verde. Those of Verde were taken from a slightly different location but --given the little move of the the rover in these last weeks despite turning the wheels furiously-- I thought autostitch would be capable to handle them... and it worked!
Click to view attachment

New Oppy updates up to sol 1497. Unfortunately nothing about the current predicament other than the phrase "Driving on Mars Is Hard".

Some insight into the initial toe-dip on sol 1489, though:

The 'update' only covered the period 3-9 April. They are keeping this incident very quiet.

Actually Aussie, they are keeping very busy trying to resolve this "incident".
The website updates are done through the wider Mars program outreach teams and are not directly linked with the mission.
I'm sure that as they get updates and as time permits the small team puts together the updates and gets them online.

They are not keeping it "quiet", the MER drivers and engineers have a big job ahead of them.
First they need to get the IDD unstowed. Previous experience has shown that this could take weeks.
Next they need to get Oppy out of the 'quackmire'. They are about halfway already, and can continue to egress as soon as the IDD issue is resolved.

The best way to keep updated is to kep an eye here at UMSF and over at Emily's Planetary Society blog.

Keep the faith, and don't think for a minute that the MER teams would ever withhold anything from us.
SS has been very vocal about the openess of this mission and that has certainly been much of the catalyst for forums like ours.

Astro0

Thanks, Astro0, but when it comes to Spirit and Opportunity I definitely rely on the watchful eyes of UMSFers to keep me apprised of the everyday state of the rovers. I'm worried by what I'm reading here, but Opportunity has gotten stuck before. The thing to do right now is to be patient, and trust the rover drivers to solve one problem at a time.

The one who does get the inside scoop is A. J. S. Rayl, who is no doubt reading this topic herself and preparing her questions to ask for her next update, which will be posted only nine days from now. So at least you have that to look forward to.

(Hi AJSR!)

--Emily

I said to myself --At last!-- when I saw that title on the MER webpage, just to realize after clicking on the link it was referring to "old news".
Some tidbits on that week's report are IMHO not 100% correct:

Sol 1493: Opportunity monitored dust on the panoramic-camera mast assembly, stowed the robotic arm, and continued driving toward Cape Verde.
That sol was the first attempt to move backwards.

Sol 1495: Opportunity took spot images of the sky for calibration purposes with the panoramic camera, stowed the robotic arm, and drove toward Cape Verde.
Second attempt to exit the trap.

Sol 1496: Opportunity stowed the robotic arm and drove backward onto bedrock to extract its wheels from the sand before proceeding toward Cape Verde.
Another failed attempt.

I'm looking forward the monthly report at TPS too!

I've seen the same thing before: reports of a drive towards a target when they actually drive away from it. In each case, though, the backwards drives were intended to be just short, temporary moves before continuing towards the main target. Maybe the update writers consider even the short backwards drives after the toe dip as part of the overall plan of a drive towards the target. It's certainly not clearly written if that's what they meant.

Why do you think they are halfway out? With slippage increasing and one rear wheel rising further off the ground, I would be more inclined to think that they are digging in and will be taking a different approach when they resume. As a person who has stayed at a Holiday Inn (and most of you around the globe won't get the joke), I would be driving forward so at least I have the gravity based vector working for me, instead of against me.

Brian

I think that the best way to get out of the trap is by trying to go back on the same forward track as Oppy got out in the past time. It is matter of the patience, Initially, the sleepage will be high but after some attempts, its will reduce whenever the Oppy 's back get on the firm stone surface.

Hence, keep with patience and persistence!

The last drive before the idd stall was actually making significant progress out of this little sticking point. The rhaz subframes tracking progress are fairly reminiscent of the last 2 or 3 days before we got out of purgatory ripple. Going forward would be bad. We have the swathes of mobility data from driving into this mess which can help design the driving strategy to get back out again.

I just got that heart-stopping headline I hate to see in my inbox, "Mars Exploration Rover Status Report," which always indicates bad news. But the news is at least partially good: there seems to be more serious trouble with the shoulder motor, but they aren't giving any indications that the wheels are stuck. They just aren't moving an inch until they diagnose the arm problems.

More here.

--Emily

It is unfortunate that the shoulder motor has stalled more than ever, but at least the motor "barely" unstowed (destowed?) the arm before demanding extra attention. I note also that Callas said they were holding off on "backing out" of the sand.. hopefully they still find a way to the craterside.

Keep on truckin'

Could someone come up with a nice picture, instead of 1000 words, that shows the current stuck position of the arm, what the arm can't do if they can't get this motor going again, and what motions it would still be capable of?

Thanks
Brian

Also some new details on the drive attempts in the latest update.

I have the feeling that we're in this spot for a while
I'd said that we'd better open up a new topic instead of keeping posting in "To the Cape"

And additional worries regarding the arm...
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mer/news/mer-20080423.html

So - worst case. The shoulder joint is dead - all that's left is the elbow joint. That means all they could do is touch whatever is directly under its current location. It could work - but it'd be hard for targetting.

Doug

Did you mean that as a statement or a supposition? We don't yet have official word that the joint is dead.

As I said - that's the worst case based on what we know.

Doug

Reading between the lines in the press release, I get the impression that they don't expect the shoulder joint to move again. It had only one winding left in the motor, and I guess that has given away now.

I'm surprised that the IDD can still be somewhat used even without the shoulder joint. If the working space is limited only right in front and below the rover, it will be very challenging though. Especially with the wall of Cape Verde right in front, it is hugely disappointing if the final winding has given up especially at this moment. I don't think there is a way to place the IDD on the vertical wall now :-(.

They will take their good time testing the motor, but after that driving will be another challenge. Since the arm is not in a stowed position, it or the IDD might be further damaged if it happens to move around when the rover attempts a drive. This is made even further difficult by the quackmire position that Oppy is in!

So the future looks very difficult! All that said, I hope the best for the rover and the team.

Bad but not hugely surprising news... she's been through it, our gal, and time has to start taking its toll eventually.

Anyway, a few questions spring to mind... How will this affect the decision on where to send Oppy next? Will having an out of action arm mean she's less or more likely to exit the crater and go scouting for cobbles? After all, if she can't touch the rock of Verde will that mean it's now a less attractive target than Elsewhere? As for those cobbles, I got the impression that studying their composition was their big "sell"; without a working arm would Oppy actually be able to do much with them?

Will this glitch mean Oppy will now become basically a roving photographer, rather than a roving geologist?

Discuss.

What I most looked forward to was a close-up hi-res pancam pararama of the wall of Cape Verde. That
is not affected by the arm trouble. As far as chemistry goes, did they ecpect to see anything that is not
present in the layers of Duck Bay already explored?