Moon probe ejection on November 14 or 15
ISRO will study Chandrayaan-1’s orbit for a day or two before commanding to eject on November 14 or 15 the 29-kg Moon Impact Probe (MIP), a box-like instrument on top of the spacecraft. The probe will crash-land on the Moon’s surface. Since the MIP is painted with the Indian flag on its sides, it will symbolically register the Indian presence on the Moon.
>>> Would the paint stick to it all the way down and after impact???
S. Satish, Director, Publications and Public Relations, ISRO, said: “The ISRO team was very cautious in executing this critical manoeuvre because we did not want to jeopardise the mission. This is a precious mission for us. Contingency plans were in place in case the liquid apogee motor (LAM) engine on board Chandrayaan-1 did not fire. Then, we would have used other thrusters on board the spacecraft to fire… There have been dynamic changes in our manoeuvres to reach the Moon.”
Link: http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/11/stories/2008111161161000.htm
Full Version: Chandrayaan 1
Chandrayaan has entered into into a orbit which is 102 kms above moons surface,very close to final orbit.
the details are in this article.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chandra...how/3705426.cms
the details are in this article.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chandra...how/3705426.cms
Will images of the Moon's surface be released by ISRO soon? I'm looking forward to seeing these.
"When the probe hits the surface, it is expected to kick up a huge amount of dust that will be analysed by instruments on the Chandrayaan orbiter."
This is from New Scientist.
I've heard nothing about any plans by amateurs or professionals to try to observe this event. Anybody else heard anything? It's not a huge probe, so I doubt if the cloud will be as huge as they suggest, and chances are nothing could be observed, but you never know. SMART-1 was seen by a big telescope, but it was in the dark and seen in IR. This will be in the light.
Phil
This is from New Scientist.
I've heard nothing about any plans by amateurs or professionals to try to observe this event. Anybody else heard anything? It's not a huge probe, so I doubt if the cloud will be as huge as they suggest, and chances are nothing could be observed, but you never know. SMART-1 was seen by a big telescope, but it was in the dark and seen in IR. This will be in the light.
Phil
A little more details on MIP with a possible timetag: ( about 1630GMT on 14/NOV )
Also this:
QUOTE
Bangalore, November 13: The Indian flag is all set to mark its presence on the lunar surface for the first time on Friday as a moon probe with the tri-colour painted on it will detach from Chandrayaan-1 and descend onto the earth's natural satellite.
"The Moon Impact Probe is expected to be detached (from Chandrayaan-1) at around 10 pm on Friday," Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) spokesperson S Satish said.
...
"During its 20-minute descend to the moon's surface, MIP will take pictures and transmit these back to the ground," he said.
...
the primary objective of MIP is to demonstrate the technologies required for landing a probe at the desired location on the moon.
The probe will help qualify some of the technologies related to future soft landing missions. This apart, scientific exploration of the moon at close distance is also intended using MIP.
The 29-kg MIP consists of a C-band Radar Altimeter for continuous measurement of altitude of the probe, a video imaging system for acquiring images of the surface of moon from the descending probe and a mass spectrometer for measuring the constituents of extremely thin lunar atmosphere during its 20-minute descent to the lunar surface.
ISRO officials are confident that the MIP would withstand the impact once it hits the lunar surface. "Most probably it will not disintegrate," an ISRO official said
"The Moon Impact Probe is expected to be detached (from Chandrayaan-1) at around 10 pm on Friday," Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) spokesperson S Satish said.
...
"During its 20-minute descend to the moon's surface, MIP will take pictures and transmit these back to the ground," he said.
...
the primary objective of MIP is to demonstrate the technologies required for landing a probe at the desired location on the moon.
The probe will help qualify some of the technologies related to future soft landing missions. This apart, scientific exploration of the moon at close distance is also intended using MIP.
The 29-kg MIP consists of a C-band Radar Altimeter for continuous measurement of altitude of the probe, a video imaging system for acquiring images of the surface of moon from the descending probe and a mass spectrometer for measuring the constituents of extremely thin lunar atmosphere during its 20-minute descent to the lunar surface.
ISRO officials are confident that the MIP would withstand the impact once it hits the lunar surface. "Most probably it will not disintegrate," an ISRO official said
Also this:
QUOTE
at an altitude of 100 kilometres, ISRO will issue commands to re-orient and eject the MIP, which has an onboard motor that will fire for two seconds to slow the MIP's descent velocity to 75 metres per second. During its descent to the lunar surface, the MIP will activate its video-camera which will capture images of the lunar surface that will be instrumental in ISRO's decision to pick a suitable landing site for Chandrayaan-2's rover.
The MIP's altimeter will measure its altitude from the Moon's surface every second, while a third instrument, the mass spectrometer, will sense the moon's atmospheric constituents as it free falls to the lunar surface. All data would be transmitted to Chandrayaan-1 till the MIP crash-lands on the moon, which in turn would be beamed back to earth.
The MIP's altimeter will measure its altitude from the Moon's surface every second, while a third instrument, the mass spectrometer, will sense the moon's atmospheric constituents as it free falls to the lunar surface. All data would be transmitted to Chandrayaan-1 till the MIP crash-lands on the moon, which in turn would be beamed back to earth.
Two seconds, to 75m/sec?
Orbital velocity at the moon at 100km is about 1.6km/sec
Getting from 1600 to 75m/sec in 2 seconds is 762.5 m/s/s - or 77.7G.
Langauge barrier alert - I think they meant slow it BY 75m/sec (which, in 2 seconds, would be roughly 4 G, a small solid motor would do that fine).
Slow the orbit BY 75m/sec - from 1630m/sec to 1555m/sec - would result in an impact about 20 minutes later, at a velocity of around 1650m/sec - with a vertical element of approx 140m/sec (all simualted using Orbiter, the free space flight simulator)
I find it a little unlikely that the probe will, in any way, survive the process.
Orbital velocity at the moon at 100km is about 1.6km/sec
Getting from 1600 to 75m/sec in 2 seconds is 762.5 m/s/s - or 77.7G.
Langauge barrier alert - I think they meant slow it BY 75m/sec (which, in 2 seconds, would be roughly 4 G, a small solid motor would do that fine).
Slow the orbit BY 75m/sec - from 1630m/sec to 1555m/sec - would result in an impact about 20 minutes later, at a velocity of around 1650m/sec - with a vertical element of approx 140m/sec (all simualted using Orbiter, the free space flight simulator)
I find it a little unlikely that the probe will, in any way, survive the process.
Chandrayaan-1 Successfully Reaches its Operational Lunar Orbit
Today, Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft has successfully reached its intended operational orbit at a height of about 100 km from the lunar surface.
Link: http://isro.org/pressrelease/Nov12_2008.htm
Today, Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft has successfully reached its intended operational orbit at a height of about 100 km from the lunar surface.
Link: http://isro.org/pressrelease/Nov12_2008.htm
Excellent. 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Tricolo...how/3710598.cms
More information on the MIP impact.
To add a little to it, Chandrayaan will be orbiting roughly over the prime meridian, moving from north to south. The probe is released near the equator and descends to an impact at the south pole, transmitting its data to the main orbiter. Images are taken at intervals - it's not video, as some reports suggest. We can expect good images from the lower altitudes, maybe including a glimpse of 'Malapert Mountain' as it flies over it. Malapert was an earlier candidate for the impact target, but now it should fly over it at low elevation and strike the rim of Shackleton. I don't know how accurately the descent trajectory can be predicted. After impact the orbiter disappears around the far side, and transmits its data back to Earth after it reappears.
Phil
More information on the MIP impact.
To add a little to it, Chandrayaan will be orbiting roughly over the prime meridian, moving from north to south. The probe is released near the equator and descends to an impact at the south pole, transmitting its data to the main orbiter. Images are taken at intervals - it's not video, as some reports suggest. We can expect good images from the lower altitudes, maybe including a glimpse of 'Malapert Mountain' as it flies over it. Malapert was an earlier candidate for the impact target, but now it should fly over it at low elevation and strike the rim of Shackleton. I don't know how accurately the descent trajectory can be predicted. After impact the orbiter disappears around the far side, and transmits its data back to Earth after it reappears.
Phil
Thanks Phil for your comments. The thing that I am convinced is that MIP has no lateral thrusters to correct the trajectory which would lead less impact target accuracy. Does anyone know about their probable impact elliptic?
Looks like MIP will be released 8.03pm or 8.04 pm (IST) To night.
and It is expected to hit the lunar surface at around 8:30pm.
and It is expected to hit the lunar surface at around 8:30pm.
QUOTE (SpaceListener @ Nov 14 2008, 01:12 AM) 
Thanks Phil for your comments. The thing that I am convinced is that MIP has no lateral thrusters to correct the trajectory which would lead less impact target accuracy. Does anyone know about their probable impact elliptic?
The MIP is a spin stabilized probe. MIP does have three spin motors on the sides which would start once the MIP is released from the orbiter.
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/do...fobjectid=41986
See page-18 of the above presentation.
Here is a possible timeline for MIP drop:
1. Launch from Mother craft : 14:33 to 14:34 GMT
2. It will fly over the Malapert crater for about nine seconds.
3. Landing of Probe on Moon : Around 1500Hrs GMT near the Shackleton Crater ... velocity at the time of impact is abput 1.5Km/sec.
The Mothership( CY1 ) will collect the data from probe but it will not be visible to Earth because it will be behind the moon when it collects the data.
So the data will be downloaded when the Mothership re-emerges from near North Pole from behind the moon after half orbit period.
1. Launch from Mother craft : 14:33 to 14:34 GMT
2. It will fly over the Malapert crater for about nine seconds.
3. Landing of Probe on Moon : Around 1500Hrs GMT near the Shackleton Crater ... velocity at the time of impact is abput 1.5Km/sec.
The Mothership( CY1 ) will collect the data from probe but it will not be visible to Earth because it will be behind the moon when it collects the data.
So the data will be downloaded when the Mothership re-emerges from near North Pole from behind the moon after half orbit period.
Twitter says that we had a good ejection:
http://twitter.com/Chandrayaan1
Pictures of MIP will be released by tomorrow.
http://twitter.com/Chandrayaan1
Pictures of MIP will be released by tomorrow.
And update: We have impact of MIP. Mission accomplished. India becomes 4th nation to land on lunar surface!!!
Congrats, ISRO!
Congrats, ISRO!
Another update on Twitter: Prelimitary results show that MIP has survived, I repeat, SURVIVED the landing!
Yet another update: They are getting "mixed info". I do not know what it means, but if MIP survived the landing, it will be the first spacecraft operating on the lunar surface since Luna 24.
Yet another update: They are getting "mixed info". I do not know what it means, but if MIP survived the landing, it will be the first spacecraft operating on the lunar surface since Luna 24.
First, thanks for keeping us up to date.
Is this true? I was not aware there was there even a remote chance of it surviving the impact. It is kind of like one of the Ranger’s surviving!
Is this true? I was not aware there was there even a remote chance of it surviving the impact. It is kind of like one of the Ranger’s surviving!
Ken, I heard rumours that the lander may survive the landing. I also thought it's impossible...Still waiting for official statement. I'm holding my breath
QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Nov 14 2008, 11:44 AM)
Yet another update: They are getting "mixed info".
Survived? Whoa!, if true.
Reposting (bump) of twitter site: http://twitter.com/Chandrayaan1
"Impact was close to Shackleton crater."
So, not in the crater... or its wall?
Excitement.
I do hope that this turns out to be true. I'm not going to hold my breath though, I would think it'd be pretty rough on a spacecraft to hit the lunar surface at such a velocity. But I can hope. Any idea when we'll receive confirmation? Minutes? hours?
And if the probe survived, what could it possibly do on the lunar surface? I wouldn't think there's much you can do with a spacecraft that smacked into the moon at orbital speed, but if there's a functional probe on the moon now, I want pictures, haha.
I do hope that this turns out to be true. I'm not going to hold my breath though, I would think it'd be pretty rough on a spacecraft to hit the lunar surface at such a velocity. But I can hope. Any idea when we'll receive confirmation? Minutes? hours?
And if the probe survived, what could it possibly do on the lunar surface? I wouldn't think there's much you can do with a spacecraft that smacked into the moon at orbital speed, but if there's a functional probe on the moon now, I want pictures, haha.
QUOTE
ny idea when we'll receive confirmation? Minutes? hours?
According to this link:
http://www.indiandefenceforum.com/index.ph...topic=17476.460
QUOTE
even ISRO cannot get the transmission live because Chandrayaan will be on the other side of moon and cannot transmit signals. will take couple of hours to download all the data.
Makes sense, thanks!
How fast was it travelling? According to that link, it hit the moon at 1.6 KM / Hr. That is how fast I drive to work in the morning. I assumed it was traveling much faster. Perhaps it did survive.
http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/Nov14_2008.htm - Here's the official statement by ISRO.
Update: They answered me here: http://twitter.com/Chandrayaan1 . Unfortunately MIP died upon impact
Update: They answered me here: http://twitter.com/Chandrayaan1 . Unfortunately MIP died upon impact
Well, it was a fun thought while it lasted. Now, we can look forward to the imges!
There are still sources that report that "they got signal after it landed on the Moon":
http://www.care2.com/news/member/576059368/951900
but most probably they are wrong
http://www.care2.com/news/member/576059368/951900
but most probably they are wrong
QUOTE (Ken90000 @ Nov 14 2008, 12:04 PM)
Well, it was a fun thought while it lasted. Now, we can look forward to the imges!
What kind of images can we expect? Any idea where the lowest-altitude image was taken? Are we going to get to see boulders strewn across the landscape around Shackleton?
And let's hear it for the BBC. (still up at the time of writing):
"touched down" ... Clap. Clap. Clap.
(EDIT: I hasten to add that I'm not belittling this excellent achievement by ISRO, which I'm sure we all applaud - just saddened once again by lame BBC reporting of a science / technology story. (#INCLUDE <arts_grad_rant.h> )
QUOTE
India's first unmanned lunar spacecraft, Chandrayaan 1, has placed a probe on the surface of the Moon. The probe, painted with the Indian flag, touched down at 2034 (1504 GMT), the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) said. It will perform various experiments, (...) in the days to come, the probe will measure the composition of the Moon's ultra-tenuous atmosphere, or exosphere.
"touched down" ... Clap. Clap. Clap.
(EDIT: I hasten to add that I'm not belittling this excellent achievement by ISRO, which I'm sure we all applaud - just saddened once again by lame BBC reporting of a science / technology story. (#INCLUDE <arts_grad_rant.h> )
You could have told me these image were from Saturnian sattelites, I'd have believed you.
Saturnian satellites are quite different, climber! This is our own satellite, the Moon, the Luna...
EDIT : I did some basic editing of the second image (removed noise, sharpened it a bit)... IMO it looks better now.
EDIT : I did some basic editing of the second image (removed noise, sharpened it a bit)... IMO it looks better now.
You're doing a great job keeping us updated on this mission, Z, thanks
Thanks, Stu, for the encouragement. My English is not fluent, but anyway, doing my best!
Thanks a lot,
it was like being there
QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Nov 14 2008, 08:36 PM)
Saturnian satellites are quite different, climber! This is our own satellite, the Moon, the Luna...
Oh Yes, I know! And I also thank you for your updates... but I say it doesn't look too much as our Moon to my eyes.
Yes, Zvezdichko, you are doing great, and I am very thankful for you keeping us updated. If it weren't for you, I would literally be unaware of this mission's progress.
QUOTE (Ken90000 @ Nov 14 2008, 05:22 PM)
How fast was it travelling? According to that link, it hit the moon at 1.6 KM / Hr.
Not hour. SECOND.
Yes, a mile a second makes much more sense to me. It never had a chance of surviving impact.
not yet any image of the impact from the orbiter?
Firstly thanks Z for keeping us all in the know about chandrayaan.Isro has done a very good job,everything has gone perfectly.
I have some questions and i would be grateful if anyone can answer them.
Can anyone tell me what was the resolution of the camera carried by MIP?
At what altitude were the pics taken?
I have some questions and i would be grateful if anyone can answer them.
Can anyone tell me what was the resolution of the camera carried by MIP?
At what altitude were the pics taken?
Unfortunately there's no information available on the ISRO website about the parameters of the camera. The images taken yesterday are raw data, there's no information about the height, too...
If I find some information, I'll post it here.
If I find some information, I'll post it here.
thanks z...there is this other forum you might want to check out.
http://www.chandrayaan-i.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3
Newspaper reports have indicated the probe has impacted near the shackleton crater may be near the rim.
http://www.chandrayaan-i.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3
Newspaper reports have indicated the probe has impacted near the shackleton crater may be near the rim.
Well it seems that the camera onboard the MIP performed well.It has generated about 15000 video frames which is going to be turned into a movie showing the entire descent phase of the probe.
Here is the article.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2008/1...11651160300.htm
Here is the article.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2008/1...11651160300.htm
http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/Nov16_2008.htm - LASER instrument was switched ON.
QUOTE (callisto @ Nov 16 2008, 06:04 AM)
Well it seems that the camera onboard the MIP performed well.It has generated about 15000 video frames which is going to be turned into a movie showing the entire descent phase of the probe.
Here is the article.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2008/1...11651160300.htm
Here is the article.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2008/1...11651160300.htm
Cool!
Some updates about Chandrayaan-1:
1. The Terrain Mapping Camera ( TMC ) , one of 11 payloads on board Chandrayaan,has been capturing images of the Moon since November 13 from a height of 100 km from the lunar surface. They will be processed by Monday,17th.
2.On Sunday , The Hyper Spectral Imager (HySI) would be switched on. It would create a mineralogical map of the lunar surface
3. The MIP, ( 2 images of which have been published ) is not really a video camera. It is a still picture camera clicking at high speed. It has actually returned about 15,000 images over the course of the 25-minute descent. This may be converted to a slow framed video later.
http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/16/stories/2008111656370800.htm
1. The Terrain Mapping Camera ( TMC ) , one of 11 payloads on board Chandrayaan,has been capturing images of the Moon since November 13 from a height of 100 km from the lunar surface. They will be processed by Monday,17th.
2.On Sunday , The Hyper Spectral Imager (HySI) would be switched on. It would create a mineralogical map of the lunar surface
3. The MIP, ( 2 images of which have been published ) is not really a video camera. It is a still picture camera clicking at high speed. It has actually returned about 15,000 images over the course of the 25-minute descent. This may be converted to a slow framed video later.
http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/16/stories/2008111656370800.htm
Lunar Laser Ranging Instrument ( LLRI ) was switched ON when the spacecraft was passing over western part of the moon’s visible hemisphere.
I am really impressed. 15,000 images from the MIP...wow. Between Chandrayaan-1, LRO, Kayuga, and Chang'e-1, this is getting fun.
http://www.zeenews.com/newspapers/2008-11-14/483333news.html
More on the impact target point, suggesting some uncertainty.
Phil
More on the impact target point, suggesting some uncertainty.
Phil
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