Apparently the CNES will receive soil samples from Phobos:
Phobos Grunty Accord Reached
According to this, the launch is still set for October...
Full Version: Phobos-Grunt
Yinghuo reportedly arrived in Moscow today
Given that its orbit is so elliptical, maybe it will image some of the poorly studied areas of Deimos.
Either that photo caption is incorrect, or China's Mars plans are more ambitious than anyone of us suspected.... 
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
I am told Yinghuo actually arrived in Moscow on 17 July but it has been reported only now
I have just received from a contact in China an interesting presentation about YH-1. Unfortunately he has asked me not to redistribute it...
just to summarize quickly:
- the 800x80000 km orbit will be quite suitable for exploring almost all areas of interaction between the solar wind and the planet including the ionospheric bow shock, magnetosheath, the pileup region and the tail and plasma sheet. Only the lower ionosphere will be out of reach, but it could still be sounded by mutual radiooccultations between Yinghuo and Fobos Grunt.
- five-instrument payload, including a plasma package, consisting of an electron analyzer and an ion analyzer and mass spectrometer, a radiooccultation sounder, a magnetometer and a camera with 200 m resolution at best to take pictures of Mars
- use of ESA and Russian deep space antennae
- 950 mm antenna, 12 W transmitter in two frequencies (8.4 and 7.17 GHz), data rate between 8 bps and 16 kbps
- use of VLBI for localization
- 8.8 hour eclipses in November 2010 (apoapsis within Mars' shadow cone)
- launch window for FG and YH-1 nominally running from 6 to 16 October
just to summarize quickly:
- the 800x80000 km orbit will be quite suitable for exploring almost all areas of interaction between the solar wind and the planet including the ionospheric bow shock, magnetosheath, the pileup region and the tail and plasma sheet. Only the lower ionosphere will be out of reach, but it could still be sounded by mutual radiooccultations between Yinghuo and Fobos Grunt.
- five-instrument payload, including a plasma package, consisting of an electron analyzer and an ion analyzer and mass spectrometer, a radiooccultation sounder, a magnetometer and a camera with 200 m resolution at best to take pictures of Mars
- use of ESA and Russian deep space antennae
- 950 mm antenna, 12 W transmitter in two frequencies (8.4 and 7.17 GHz), data rate between 8 bps and 16 kbps
- use of VLBI for localization
- 8.8 hour eclipses in November 2010 (apoapsis within Mars' shadow cone)
- launch window for FG and YH-1 nominally running from 6 to 16 October
Too bad they are so secretive. 200 m resolution doesn't impress me either.
The presentation I was sent was intended for internal use only and not for publication or distribution, so I was asked not to make it public.
As for the camera, I am getting the impression that the focus of the mission will actually be ionospheric studies. probably the camera is carried to produce "something visual" for PR.
Anyway, there are two cameras actually, with square 20 degree and 38 degree fields
As for the camera, I am getting the impression that the focus of the mission will actually be ionospheric studies. probably the camera is carried to produce "something visual" for PR.
Anyway, there are two cameras actually, with square 20 degree and 38 degree fields
QUOTE (Paolo @ Aug 8 2009, 04:10 AM) 
probably the camera is carried to produce "something visual" for PR.
That's an encouraging paradigm for an emergent space agency; I hope that other organizations will take note (cough, ahem.)
And actually, given the anticipated highly elliptical orbit & consequent viewing geometry, there might be some spectacular pics indeed despite the low resolution.
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publi...cle_22517.shtml
This is odd....I have seen this variations on this story in a few places, and they seem totally confident about flying the precursor mission on Phobos-Grunt in 2011...either the press is getting confused, there are poor communications, or they (the MetNet team) know something we don't.
This is odd....I have seen this variations on this story in a few places, and they seem totally confident about flying the precursor mission on Phobos-Grunt in 2011...either the press is getting confused, there are poor communications, or they (the MetNet team) know something we don't.
Testing of landing radar for Phobos-Grunt (from Russianspaceweb)
On Aug 12, 2009, at the Flight Research Institute, LII, a piloted hot-air balloon lifted a test version of the DISD-FG landing radar for the Phobos-Grunt spacecraft. According to a posting on the LiveJournal.com web site, it was the first in a series of hot-air balloon flights, scheduled to reach as high as 3,000 meters. The program was conducted by Avgur airship center under a contract with the Vega enterprise, which developed the DISD-FG radar. Vega's representatives said that hot-air balloon flights had provided an ideal simulation of weightlessness during the space flight. Nikolai Galkin, Avgur's balloon pilot, was at the control during the ascent.
On Aug 12, 2009, at the Flight Research Institute, LII, a piloted hot-air balloon lifted a test version of the DISD-FG landing radar for the Phobos-Grunt spacecraft. According to a posting on the LiveJournal.com web site, it was the first in a series of hot-air balloon flights, scheduled to reach as high as 3,000 meters. The program was conducted by Avgur airship center under a contract with the Vega enterprise, which developed the DISD-FG radar. Vega's representatives said that hot-air balloon flights had provided an ideal simulation of weightlessness during the space flight. Nikolai Galkin, Avgur's balloon pilot, was at the control during the ascent.
Great info, Hungry4info!
Launch is scheduled for October (two months from now), and they started with landing radar tests? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it sound a little bit late-ish?
QUOTE (mps @ Aug 16 2009, 04:14 AM)
Launch is scheduled for October (two months from now), and they started with landing radar tests? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it sound a little bit late-ish?
Yeah that's what I was thinking, though I'm not familiar with how the Russians test their spacecraft.
QUOTE (mps @ Aug 16 2009, 05:14 AM)
Launch is scheduled for October (two months from now), and they started with landing radar tests? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it sound a little bit late-ish?
One of those things, I suppose. The Huygens radar altimeters were still being tested (balloon flight)
in December 2004......
http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=7155
Russia announces that all tests are due to be completed till September 20th. If they are not, the flight will be delayed to 2011. At this moment Georgy Polishtuk guesses that all work will be completed on time.
There are four unique features that characterize Phobos-Grunt. First, we have an unique propulsion system that may be used on trips to the Moon and Venus and other planets. This system is being tested only now. Second, we have the Chinese subsatellite. He's fully ready and is already integrated. Third - it's the landing on Phobos and work on the Natural satellite. Except the apparatus that will collect grunt we will have 19 (NINETEEN!) international scientific instruments. Mars is going to be explored remotely. Fourth - we have the sample return capsule which is due to launch from Phobos and return on Earth.
Phobos-Grunt is fully complete and now complex tests are to be carried.
As for the Lunar project, says Polishtuk, "Luna-Glob" probe is due to launch in 2011. Basic work has been completed. There are no serious problems here, either.
Russia announces that all tests are due to be completed till September 20th. If they are not, the flight will be delayed to 2011. At this moment Georgy Polishtuk guesses that all work will be completed on time.
There are four unique features that characterize Phobos-Grunt. First, we have an unique propulsion system that may be used on trips to the Moon and Venus and other planets. This system is being tested only now. Second, we have the Chinese subsatellite. He's fully ready and is already integrated. Third - it's the landing on Phobos and work on the Natural satellite. Except the apparatus that will collect grunt we will have 19 (NINETEEN!) international scientific instruments. Mars is going to be explored remotely. Fourth - we have the sample return capsule which is due to launch from Phobos and return on Earth.
Phobos-Grunt is fully complete and now complex tests are to be carried.
As for the Lunar project, says Polishtuk, "Luna-Glob" probe is due to launch in 2011. Basic work has been completed. There are no serious problems here, either.
From MAKS 2009:
a model of Fobos-Grunt's launch configuration, with the YH-1 "birdcage"
and a model of YH-1 itself
Note that the configuration of F-G is the same shown in le Bourget in june, with the sample capsule mounted sideways instead of on top of the stack like a cherry on a pie...
a model of Fobos-Grunt's launch configuration, with the YH-1 "birdcage"
and a model of YH-1 itself
Note that the configuration of F-G is the same shown in le Bourget in june, with the sample capsule mounted sideways instead of on top of the stack like a cherry on a pie...
Other pictures of Lavochkin's booth from the company's website
Fobos Grunt
Planetokhod
Fobos Grunt
Planetokhod
Great Pictures...by the way, the MetNet ambiguity continues. This very recently published bit seems to indicate 2009 as a possibility. Strange...
http://meetingorganizer.copernicus.org/EGU...GU2009-8237.pdf
http://meetingorganizer.copernicus.org/EGU...GU2009-8237.pdf
The mass breakdown published in http://www.russianspaceweb.com/phobos_grunt.html includes the MML... we will know more in a few weeks, I hope
It was then reported that MetNet had been fallen behind. Perhaps it caught up. I hope so.
http://fg.iki.rssi.ru/current/phobos/
A friend of mine notified me that we finally have a countdown set up on IKI's website.
We just hope that all tests will be completed successfully till September 20th
A friend of mine notified me that we finally have a countdown set up on IKI's website.
We just hope that all tests will be completed successfully till September 20th
If I did my math correctly, the countdown clock would put the launch on 15 Oct at 0700 GMT.
http://oko-planet.su/science/sciencenews/1...vozmozhnoe.html
http://www.ruvr.ru/main.php?lng=rus&q=...8.2009&pn=1
Two links hint that Phobos-Grunt may launch in November, if necessary. I have no information about the current status of the tests, but Roscosmos already informed us that they should be completed very soon. If they are successful, they will proceed with launch.
http://www.ruvr.ru/main.php?lng=rus&q=...8.2009&pn=1
Two links hint that Phobos-Grunt may launch in November, if necessary. I have no information about the current status of the tests, but Roscosmos already informed us that they should be completed very soon. If they are successful, they will proceed with launch.
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/index.html
Anatoly Zak:
Anatoly Zak:
QUOTE
Key officials preparing Russia’s flagship planetary spacecraft will recommend delaying the mission to 2011, less than two months before its scheduled launch this year, sources within space industry told RussianSpaceWeb.com.
The Phobos-Grunt spacecraft has a goal of landing on the surface of the mysterious Martian moon Phobos and returning samples of its ancient soil back to Earth. Russian space agency, Roskosmos, was expected to officially decide the fate of the high-profile project within a week, based on results of testing, which the spacecraft has been undergoing since July at its assembly facility at NPO Lavochkin in Khimki, near Moscow.
According to its latest increasingly tight schedule, the Phobos-Grunt spacecraft had to be shipped to the launch site in Baikonur Cosmodrome, on Sept. 26, 2009, in order to be able to catch a narrow astronomical launch window to Mars in October of this year. A previously announced timeline called for the shipment of the spacecraft to Baikonur in August, only to be pushed back to the middle of September 2009. The decision to roll out the vehicle to Baikonur would mean a commitment to launch this year, while the failure to do so would postpone the mission to 2011.
The Phobos-Grunt spacecraft has a goal of landing on the surface of the mysterious Martian moon Phobos and returning samples of its ancient soil back to Earth. Russian space agency, Roskosmos, was expected to officially decide the fate of the high-profile project within a week, based on results of testing, which the spacecraft has been undergoing since July at its assembly facility at NPO Lavochkin in Khimki, near Moscow.
According to its latest increasingly tight schedule, the Phobos-Grunt spacecraft had to be shipped to the launch site in Baikonur Cosmodrome, on Sept. 26, 2009, in order to be able to catch a narrow astronomical launch window to Mars in October of this year. A previously announced timeline called for the shipment of the spacecraft to Baikonur in August, only to be pushed back to the middle of September 2009. The decision to roll out the vehicle to Baikonur would mean a commitment to launch this year, while the failure to do so would postpone the mission to 2011.
There's a very interesting thread on the novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru forum. The mood is VERY, very grim over there. Those who were obviously aware of the situation say: "I told you so, it was a theater". Others are very, very angry. I can understand these people, because they were promised a launch this year. But all I can say is: If you have an expensive, ambitious spacecraft that's not well tested - just don't launch it yet. I want to see the mission flying, but I also want to see the mission to succeed.
According to Interfax Fobos-Grunt has been delayed to 2011
QUOTE (Paolo @ Sep 16 2009, 11:32 AM)
According to Interfax Fobos-Grunt has been delayed to 2011
This mission may have just been saved from disaster.
It will also be interesting to see how any delay will be welcomed in China.
Chinese sources have earlier hinted that they could launch HY-1 on their own (in 2011) if needed
Chinese sources have earlier hinted that they could launch HY-1 on their own (in 2011) if needed
This is the right decision.
Keep in mind that Roscosmos still hasn't announced the delay. You will be informed as soon as it happens.
Keep in mind that Roscosmos still hasn't announced the delay. You will be informed as soon as it happens.
For those who are curious - I'm checking the website of Roscosmos every day and still no word of official delay. Today is September 20th and i hope that the agency will inform us until the end of the day, as promised.
Here it is, F-G is officially delayed to 2011. Better this than losing another Russian planetary spacecraft!
http://www.rian.ru/science/20090921/185905786.html
http://www.infox.ru/science/universe/2009/...bos_grunt.phtml
http://www.rian.ru/science/20090921/185905786.html
http://www.infox.ru/science/universe/2009/...bos_grunt.phtml
Yes, it's a better for the mission to be delayed.
Anyway, I find it a bit sad that we are missing a Mars window for a first time during the last 20 years. Well, not exactly 20 years, but... at least since Mars Observer.
The best thing that could happen will be a revival of Phoenix, but I don't have high hopes for this.
Anyway, I find it a bit sad that we are missing a Mars window for a first time during the last 20 years. Well, not exactly 20 years, but... at least since Mars Observer.
The best thing that could happen will be a revival of Phoenix, but I don't have high hopes for this.
1994 was the last unused Mars launch window
Despite the information from Lev Zelenyi, Roscosmos still hasn't announced an official delay.
According to Anatoly Zak, russianspaceweb.com editor, Russia will announce the official delay today. It's expected the delay to be based on the results of testings, but Zak has another opinion - the project started in 2007 and time to develop and test the spacecraft was insufficient.
According to Anatoly Zak, russianspaceweb.com editor, Russia will announce the official delay today. It's expected the delay to be based on the results of testings, but Zak has another opinion - the project started in 2007 and time to develop and test the spacecraft was insufficient.
Yes, what is interesting is that Zelenyi is reported saying that the problem was just time, and that the program was properly financed
Roscosmos still hasn't announced an official delay, despite speculations that today was going to be the big day. This is what Zak says and this is also what I see on Roscosmos site.
Roscosmos did confirmed the delay, sort of.
In today's Rossiyskaya Gazeta, head of Roscosmos Anatoliy Perminov spoke about it as of old news.
He told that the delay was requested by the Bureau of Space Souncil of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
He also spoke about three problems leading to delay:
(1) They do not know exactly what is Phobos soil like and which type of soil capture device would be the best.
(2) They do not have 100% comms coverage yet.
(3) More careful testing of component elements is needed.
http://www.rg.ru/2009/09/29/perminov.html
For those speaking Russian there is the related excerpt:
In today's Rossiyskaya Gazeta, head of Roscosmos Anatoliy Perminov spoke about it as of old news.
He told that the delay was requested by the Bureau of Space Souncil of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
He also spoke about three problems leading to delay:
(1) They do not know exactly what is Phobos soil like and which type of soil capture device would be the best.
(2) They do not have 100% comms coverage yet.
(3) More careful testing of component elements is needed.
http://www.rg.ru/2009/09/29/perminov.html
For those speaking Russian there is the related excerpt:
QUOTE
РГ: А что с космическим аппаратом "Фобос-Грунт", запуск которого к спутнику Марса планировался в середине октября?
Перминов: Бюро совета РАН по космосу рекомендовало перенести реализацию этой научной миссии на октябрь 2011 года.
РГ: Почему?
Перминов: Для того чтобы обеспечить более высокую ее надежность. Ученые рассчитывают уточнить характер самой поверхности Фобоса. Это нужно, чтобы точнее сконструировать устройство для забора грунта. Если грунт слишком твердый, то неправильно выбранный способ его забора может свести к нулю результат столь дорогой экспедиции. Кроме того, пока не достигнута 100-процентная надежность дублированной непрерывной связи с аппаратом на всех этапах полета. Нужна и более надежная отработка составных элементов.
РГ: А с чем связан перенос именно на два года? Если бы аппарат был запущен сейчас, то к апрелю 2011 года он уже сел бы на Фобос...
Перминов: В 2011 году открывается наиболее оптимальное астрономическое окно для полета к Марсу и его спутнику. Это позволит "Фобос-Грунту" по кратчайшей траектории достичь цели и вернуться назад.
Перминов: Бюро совета РАН по космосу рекомендовало перенести реализацию этой научной миссии на октябрь 2011 года.
РГ: Почему?
Перминов: Для того чтобы обеспечить более высокую ее надежность. Ученые рассчитывают уточнить характер самой поверхности Фобоса. Это нужно, чтобы точнее сконструировать устройство для забора грунта. Если грунт слишком твердый, то неправильно выбранный способ его забора может свести к нулю результат столь дорогой экспедиции. Кроме того, пока не достигнута 100-процентная надежность дублированной непрерывной связи с аппаратом на всех этапах полета. Нужна и более надежная отработка составных элементов.
РГ: А с чем связан перенос именно на два года? Если бы аппарат был запущен сейчас, то к апрелю 2011 года он уже сел бы на Фобос...
Перминов: В 2011 году открывается наиболее оптимальное астрономическое окно для полета к Марсу и его спутнику. Это позволит "Фобос-Грунту" по кратчайшей траектории достичь цели и вернуться назад.
My Russian is good enough to understand 2011 
QUOTE (climber @ Sep 29 2009, 09:19 AM)
2011
Mine might extend to "April 2011", but I wouldn't swear to it
Google translation:
RG: What's wrong with the spacecraft Phobos-Grunt, which is to launch a satellite of Mars was planned in mid-October?
Perminov: Office of Space Sciences Board recommended to postpone the implementation of this scientific mission in October 2011.
RG: Why?
Perminov: In order to ensure greater reliability. Scientists expect to clarify the nature of the surface of Phobos. It is necessary to better design a device for collecting soil. If your soil is too hard, then the wrong way to the fence could nullify the results of such an expensive expedition. Furthermore, not yet achieved 100 percent reliability duplicated continuous communication with the staff on all phases of flight. Need more reliable and working out its constituent elements.
RG: And from what port it is connected to two years? If the machine was running now, by April 2011 he would have sat on Phobos ...
Perminov: In 2011 was called the best possible astronomical window for the flight to Mars and its moons. This will allow the "Phobos-Grunt" on the shortest path to reach the goal and back.
RG: What's wrong with the spacecraft Phobos-Grunt, which is to launch a satellite of Mars was planned in mid-October?
Perminov: Office of Space Sciences Board recommended to postpone the implementation of this scientific mission in October 2011.
RG: Why?
Perminov: In order to ensure greater reliability. Scientists expect to clarify the nature of the surface of Phobos. It is necessary to better design a device for collecting soil. If your soil is too hard, then the wrong way to the fence could nullify the results of such an expensive expedition. Furthermore, not yet achieved 100 percent reliability duplicated continuous communication with the staff on all phases of flight. Need more reliable and working out its constituent elements.
RG: And from what port it is connected to two years? If the machine was running now, by April 2011 he would have sat on Phobos ...
Perminov: In 2011 was called the best possible astronomical window for the flight to Mars and its moons. This will allow the "Phobos-Grunt" on the shortest path to reach the goal and back.
QUOTE (algorimancer @ Sep 29 2009, 09:02 PM)
Mine might extend to "April 2011", but I wouldn't swear to it
Actually, I think it is more something like that:
Rossiskaja Gazeta: Why exactly a two-year delay? If the spacecraft had launched now, it would arrive Phobos already in April 2011...
EDIT: charborob was quicker
Industry Insiders Foresaw Delay of Russia’s Phobos-Grunt
QUOTE
the far biggest issue for Phobos-Grunt, sources familiar with the program said, was the flight readiness of the onboard flight control system.
Problems with the spacecraft’s onboard flight control system can be traced back to an early, controversial decision by Phobos-Grunt’s lead contractor, NPO Lavochkin, to build the probe’s BKU in house rather than outsource the job to OKB Mars, the Moscow-based firm that supplies most of Lavochkin’s flight control computers.
Problems with the spacecraft’s onboard flight control system can be traced back to an early, controversial decision by Phobos-Grunt’s lead contractor, NPO Lavochkin, to build the probe’s BKU in house rather than outsource the job to OKB Mars, the Moscow-based firm that supplies most of Lavochkin’s flight control computers.
QUOTE (mps @ Oct 6 2009, 09:35 AM)
Beside the fact that Medvezhiy Ozera is near Moscow, not near St Petersburg, anybody knows why Yevpatoria is no longer mentioned? is the Ukrainian deep space station abandoned?
QUOTE (Paolo @ Oct 6 2009, 07:55 PM)
Beside the fact that Medvezhiy Ozera is near Moscow, not near St Petersburg, anybody knows why Yevpatoria is no longer mentioned? is the Ukrainian deep space station abandoned?
Its still not abandoned. At last few year those facilities participate at such projects as:
- "Cosmic Call" project in 1999 and 2003
- LFVN from PulKon (ПулКон) in 2006-2007
But as I think our government is not interested in the space research. Often sound and appeals to the closure of the center of "economic reasons". Some information about the center you can find there (but in russian)
Hi All,
According to www.russiansdpaceweb.com/phobos_grunt_preflight.html#delay2009
the Phobos Grunt mission as intended to fly in 2009 is too heavy for the 2011 launch window.
It will have to lose 150 kg to allow the same Zenit LV to hurl it to Mars.
I would imagine this is not news to the Russian ballisticians in change of P-B trajectory analysis.
Launch window quality is usually known decades in advance of the actual flight projects
that utilise them.
In addition, the 2011 window does not allow a Mars orbit insertion directly into an equatorial
orbit (where Phobos is); therefore more fuel is needed to "zero out" the probe's orbital inclination.
It will be interesting to see how the problem is tackled. Some obvious options would be
either switching to a more powerful LV (a Proton is mentioned in the article) or losing
some of the payload.
What I'm not sure I understand is previous statements regarding the possibility of flying a MetNet Precursor mission
piggyback on P-G in 2011. Surely, one would not want to *add* payload to a vehicle that is already
overweight.
Perhaps someone can shed some light into all this.
Tolis.
According to www.russiansdpaceweb.com/phobos_grunt_preflight.html#delay2009
the Phobos Grunt mission as intended to fly in 2009 is too heavy for the 2011 launch window.
It will have to lose 150 kg to allow the same Zenit LV to hurl it to Mars.
I would imagine this is not news to the Russian ballisticians in change of P-B trajectory analysis.
Launch window quality is usually known decades in advance of the actual flight projects
that utilise them.
In addition, the 2011 window does not allow a Mars orbit insertion directly into an equatorial
orbit (where Phobos is); therefore more fuel is needed to "zero out" the probe's orbital inclination.
It will be interesting to see how the problem is tackled. Some obvious options would be
either switching to a more powerful LV (a Proton is mentioned in the article) or losing
some of the payload.
What I'm not sure I understand is previous statements regarding the possibility of flying a MetNet Precursor mission
piggyback on P-G in 2011. Surely, one would not want to *add* payload to a vehicle that is already
overweight.
Perhaps someone can shed some light into all this.
Tolis.
I heard PhobosGrunt would have the MetLander (name?) added onto it now that it's targeted for the 2011 window. Apparently, this is unfeasible (and I think the mission is too complex for its own good anyway). Can they just drop the Chinese probe?
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