Hi Gonzz,

thank you so much for the appreciation of our work !

I simply lack the words to express how overwhelmed I am by your beautifully put words that so exactly to the point express all the feelings that have ever motivated my fascination and passion with space image processing ...

In german I would say "du sprichst mir aus der Seele" ... meaning "you speak just from my Soul"

Just noticed this spectacular image was featured on APOD!

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap051128.html

Congratulations to all involved!

The image is incredible.

GREAT WORK!!!

Thank you. I submitted it to APOD for consideration and I guess they liked it

Congratulations to all on the APOD front!

Bob Shaw

Spirit-on-top-of-Husband-Hill-picture in leading Belgian newspaper "De Standaard" today:

Wow - Is there any way you could get more copies of that? I'd be happy to pay for postage etc if you could get 3 copies sorted for me

Doug

I'll try to get more copies tomorrow (it's too late now) - but I'm not sure if they sell newspapers from the day before .
If not, you can have my copy.

WOW, general, thanks for the highlight!
I tried to look at the online edition (http://www.standaard.be/Nieuws/Wetenschap/) but no mention of the image

A Belgian newspaper of all things. I'll manage a few copies I think.

Will check asap.

Nico

If you can't get any copies from the stores, and if you live anywhere close to the newspaper's head office, they will probably have some copies there

born out of an international forum, the image seems now to be travelling the world!

I sincerely hope they credited you folks.

Hi Nico, All

Wow, Thats our submision to APOD from Monday

General, thank you for posting so clearly

I would also really love an original or copy of that page if possible and will also pay postage.

please contact me at

ken@princetonastronomy.org

thank you

ken

It seems they give a generic credit to Nasa only...

Looks like it wouldn't be a bad idea if I made a call to the paper.

Nico.

10 copies just confirmed.

So I guess that's 3-4 for Doug, 1 for me and 5-6 left for; Marco (dilo), Bernhard (nirgal) and Kenneth (mars loon).

Nico

You're a legend

like the muscles from Brussels?

you certainly know how to walk and run on Mars.

looks like its in color too?

thank you

*And* an article about Hayabusa meeting the bodemmonster (presumably a relative of the Great Galactic Ghoul) on planetoide onzeker!

That explains *everything*!

Bob Shaw

Bob,

I think you should ask Santa Claus for a good dictionary

"Return Hayabusa with asteroid soil sample uncertain"



P.S. : I was unable to get any more copies of the newspaper.
So I'm pleased to see Nico got some.

Or wait until I come along:

The caption under the photo says:

Self portrait

The Mars rover Spirit made this self portait on top of the hill "Husband Hill" on Mars. The image has been assembled from several seperate images using a computer. The horizon appears to be round because of the wide angel perspective. Of Spirit itself it are mostly the solarcells that can be seen.

Article about Hayabusa:

Return Hayabusa with soil sample from astroid is unsure.

Spaceflight

The probe that took a sample of an astroid perhaps can't return to Earth.

The mission of the Japanese unmanned space probe Hayabusa to astroid Itokawa seems to be a string of defects and technical malfunctions. (De Standaard 24 November). But despite the dificulties the craft succeeded in achieving the most important goal of the mission: It took a soil from an astroid for the first time. At the moment however it's unsure if the precious cargo can be returned to Earth, because the probe is suffering from engine troubles. As the probe ascended from the astroid's surface last Saturday, after it collected the soil sample, a leak ocurred in one of it's two the engines. As this happend both engines were shutdown and the onboard computer put the probe in a "safe mode", in which as much systems as possible are shutdown. However, this lead to Hayabusa being unable to control it's attitude in space and the probe began to tumble. This makes communicating with Earth difficult because the antenna can't be pointed anymore. Tuesday the flightcontrollers succeeded in restoring communications with the probe, but they didn't succeed in restoring the probe's orientation. To do that they counted on the non leaking engine, but for unkown reason it didn't operate. Assuming that at least one of the engine is working Hayabusa can only return to Earth after the orientation has been restored. Yesterday the flightcontrollers were still trying to regain control of the probe. Hayabusa has to start the return journey early December the latest. Otherwise it will have to wait another three years before the Earth and the astroid are in the right position again, and it's quite unsure if the probe will last that long.

Thank you very much, DEChengst!



Hey, considering also other processing operations, we used at least 3 computers!

But I *like* the idea of the bodemmonster being thye Great Galactic Ghoul's second cousin!

Bob Shaw

Don't look now, guys, but your image, as reprinted at APOD, made Opportunity jealous! Take a look at her live journal.

Of course, Oppy does get jealous of her sister... there's a good amount of sibling rivalry going on there...

-the other Doug

That is really cute. Oppy is " The Princess Rover !!! ". Thank you for the link

Oh, Spirit has her own live journal too:

spirit rover

But Spirit's journal isn't updated even as often as Oppy's -- and Spirit has always been the problem child. She had that schizophrenic episode back on Sol 18, remember. She's always writing dark, depressing poetry about dark and cold and such...

Actually, the whole thing is clever, and I appreciated someone taking the time to put together those live journals. And our MERs aren't the only probes with live journals at that site...

Hubble Space Telescope

Stardust

SOHO

GOES 9 and 10 (Sibling Rivalry, Satellite-Style)

Sojourner (aka Pathfindress)

And my personal favorite, that plucky Mars probe that doesn't yet know the Soviet Union has fallen and exists no more:

Mars 3

Unfortunately, whoever had the clever idea of setting up these live journals has obviously developed a life or something int he past year -- most of the journals have been pretty inactive for the past 12 to 18 months. But they're amusing, and the Mars 3 journal is outstandingly entertaining! His journal entries begin back in 1971...

-the other Doug

That's a truly amazing image and I just found it yesterday in our University's library

Some questions:

For the BIS ( British Interplanetary Society ) monthly magazine ' Spaceflight ' we're searching a spectacular MER image to put on the cover of the magazine which will have the 1 Martian year on the Red planet article ...

1. Could we use this image ?
2. What would the copyright be ?
3. If the answer is affirmative, could one of the 4 authors, send me a high resolution version please ?

On the other hand:

Is that particular ' Aviation Week & Space Technology ' still available ?

Thanks in advance,
Philip

Philip,

YES !!!!

you may reprint it so long as reprint credit is given to Aviation Week and the 4 authors

I will get you exactly what you need later today.

please send me an email at

ken@princetonastronomy.org

also you can purchase the issue from Aviation Week directly, if its still in stock.

here is the info from my earlier post in this thread:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More on availability of Aviation Week

--Aviation Week & Space Technology is not sold on news stands. It is a subscriber only publication with subscribers in 180 countries. But anyone can order individual copies by calling this toll free number: 800-525-5003.

Just tell them you would like to order the Nov. 14, 2005 issue of Aviation Week.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thank you

ken

Philip

Here are a summary of links to online versions of the Spirit panorama and story (by Craig Covault) printed by Aviation Week (14 Nov 2005) and reprinted by NASAWATCH and APOD. You may reprint the panorama in "BIS Spaceflight" with credit to Aviation Week and the 4 authors. Please contact me for higher resolution or alternate versions.

Link to AWST story and online pdf:
http://www.aviationweek.com/avnow/news/cha...ews/11145p1.xml
http://www.aviationnow.com/media/pdf/spiri...18f_col_a2b.pdf

Link to NASAWATCH story:
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1075

Link to online NASAWATCH/Spaceref pdf reprint:
http://images.spaceref.com/news/2005/SPIRITAWST.l.jpg

Link to APOD image reprint:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap051128.html

Spaceflight is quite a fine publication and we would be honored for the panorama to appear therein

ken

And the image has now made it to the New Scientist Xmas issue - Credited to Dilo again and that Al chap.

Well done!

Bob Shaw

Hi Bob,

thank you for the notice and that does sound nice.

Actually we did not submit it to them.

Can you please put on a link if possible or email me. I just checked online and do not see it as a current or past issue as of 17 Dec 2005

thank you

ken

So many Xmas gifts!
Congratulations again guys, for your great great work!

Ken:

It's a full-pager on p14 of the 24/31 December double issue in their review of 2005.

Credits in full are to: 'MARCO DI LORENZO ETAL (sic) COURTESY AVIATION WEEK/JPL/NASA'

I suspect it'll be somewhere on the NS web site, too.

Bob Shaw

Oh, dont tell me they think ETAL is part of Marco's name instead of et al (meaning and others)

Doug

Doug:

You got it!

Bob Shaw

Bob,

thanks for the info. They really should have contacted us. do you or anyone have the editors email or contact info?

ken

Hey, they weren't very smart, nor correct! I do not like to appear as the only author, this was a cooperative effort! I think they must publish an errata with their apologies in the next issue...
Anyway, I think will be hard for me to find an hardcopy here... can someone kindly post (or send to me and co-authors) a scan of this page?
Thanks!

I suspect that Aviation Week has certain rights to the image now, and sold it...

...it's *still* nice to be responsible for a full-page of New Scientist, though!

Bob Shaw

Bob, All

We are virtually certain that Aviation Week did not sell the image.

Based on your description, it appears that New Scientist magazine reprinted, without permission or proper credit to the 4 authors, the image we submitted to APOD and which appeared on APOD on 28 Nov 2005.

We are FLATTERED and HAPPY that they reprinted the image, but do request proper credit. That is simply the standard copyright practive and courtesy, to accord credit, especially for a science magazine.

Can you or someone, please possibly scan or post the article and email to the authors so that way we may see exactly how it has appeared.

currently I only have access to this abstract:
http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18825315.100

thank you

ken

What I just can not believe is that New SCIENTIST... (I'll say that again..SCIENTIST) confused the phrase et al (used a dozen times on just about any science paper ever written) and made it into Marco's second sirname Etal.

That's bad enough - but to then put (sic) at the end, which basically says 'Yes, we know it looks odd that the guys name ends in Etal, but it's right, we checked, honestly' - is just SHOCKINGLY bad practice by whoever put it in there. I'm more upset by their utter stupidity then their failure to ask us & AW first. The answer would, of course, have been yes, but to screw it up so badly is shocking for what I thought was a good publication.

Doug

Well next issue they are going to do an article on the great Irish inventor, Pat Pending.

This sounds like very poor editorial practice for New Scientist.

It depends on your agreement with AW, but typically you license the use of an image under agreed-upon terms and retain ownership and all other rights to the image. In this case, you probably would grant one-time exclusive use with reprint privledges. An image is rarely sold outright, especially a unique image like this one.

Unless specifically granted, AW cannot "sell" use of your image. Not knowing any more details, I'd say that New Scientist used the image without authorization and may be liable for substantial useage fees. You may not want to be hard-headed about this, but you do need to press _any_ infringement issues assertively. If you don't, it sets a bad precedent for anyone who wants to mis-appropriate that image from you or any image from anyone else in the future.

As much as we'd all like to hear how this drama unfolds, you may want to consider what you say in public on this matter. And be careful what you post or publish from the NS website here, if you infringe on them, that could compromise your position. Posting the link to the abstract was OK.

I do photography as an amateur-professional sideline, and I get stuck with issues like this from time to time. "BT,DT".

--Bill

Doug,

I've got a copy in front of me. Just to clarify, the "(sic)" must have been added by Bob to indicate that part of the credit reads "ETAL" and that it wasn't an typo on his part. The text as printed reads, exactly:

MARCO DI LORENZO ETAL COURTESY AVIATIONWEEK/JPL/NASA

The lack of a space between AVIATION and WEEK suggests to me that more than one space has been lost at some point. Somebody has been a bit slapdash, and the magazine needs its wrist slapped.

Chris

Bill is correct. The dispute that our fine colleagues here at UMSF (the "authors" of the "work") have with New Scientist's use of their work depends upon their agreement/contract with Aviation Week. It appears to me that the authors put so much work into the cover that they in fact own the copyright, but their contract may have assigned the "re-copy" rights to Aviation Week in some fashion. Depending on the terms of their contract, IMHO either Aviation Week or the authors may very well may have some legal dispute with New Scientist if NS did not have proper permission.

There are so many web sites that simply cut and paste content or links from other web sites. It's often done without attribution these days, and it reminds me that the WWW is still like the Wild Wild West of the United States, not so long ago. It's good to note that there still are some Marshals around.

Doug (et al):

I am wholly, entirely, completely, indivisibly, totally and utterly responsible for the (sic). It was put in to make the point that NS had, indeed, assumed that ETAL was a bit of a surname! And yes, it was obviously poor proof-reading that let it slip into the magazine, but there's been much worse in the past, I'm sure. FWIW, the page in question was much more in the territory of the graphics designers than the guys who write the editorial text, and it's a fact of life that the folk who do graphics are at heart only able to see text as black marks on paper - and the folk who write copy don't see graphics! So, on a page with a big picture and some text the proportion of schoolboy howlers dramatically rises. Still, at least the image wasn't reprinted by the Grauniad, which might have been *really* creative!

I suspect that your deal with AW&ST included a reprint element, and that NS picked the image up as stock footage. Or, indeed, assumed that they were dealing with an attributable but non-copyright asserted image (as in NASA images - for example, the paintings which Don Davis did for Galileo etc).

I'll scan the page in question and post it here shortly - if anybody wants a B I G version then e-mail me and I'll send you a high-res file.

It's quite a coup getting published by NS, and I'm sure that they'll publish an errata if you ask - they regularly run a 'For the Record' spot on the Letters Page where they correct errors.

NS (which is now shut until next year) may be contacted via a forms-based web page at:
http://www.newscientist.com/contact.ns

Or try the Editor:
jeremy.webb@newscientist.com

Bob Shaw

Hi Bob,

thank you for the additional info here and earlier

I have already emailed them at several addresses with no word back. thank you for the editors direct link.

will send you an email for the hi res file. thank you

ken

Here's a low-res scan of the NS page, plus a crop showing just the credits:

Bob Shaw