Victoria and her features, Okay folks, what can we see already - and what will we see when we get Options

[ElkGroveDan]

But I keep looking at that tiny little crater on the southern rim of Victoria.

Yeah that has caught my eye too. It reminds me of the one they called "Rimshot" at the Pathfinder site.

My most painful recollection of a rimshot was in Game 7 of the 2002 NBA (basketball) Western Conference finals- Sacramento and Los Angeles were tied 3 games a piece. I was there, the place was going wild. The game was tied at the closing buzzer and Sacramento's Doug Christie lofted a shot from center court that would have decided the season. It hit the rim, paused, and rolled out. (Sacramento later lost in overtime).

For that memory, they should call that crater Doug Christie (keep in mind, JPL is in Los Angeles, so they would consider it a fond memory).

Anyone else?

[climber]

What I also like in this "new" topic is that we don't even doubt that Oppy will get there and that we don't even mind when
go UMSF'ers go
thanks Stu

[Stu]

Without a sophisticated 3D CAD package to make me a model of Victoria with, I went back to basics...

3D Victoria model

Not exactly Industrial Light and Magic, I know, and absolutely no use at all as a serious research tool, I just fancied having a model of the real thing to look at when Oppy reaches it in July. And it does make it seem kinda more real when you see it...

[antoniseb]

I know, and absolutely no use at all as a serious research tool, I just fancied having a model of the real thing to look at when Oppy reaches it in July. And it does make it seem kinda more real when you see it...

You were lucky to find something bowl-shaped as a starting point.

[Bill Harris]

3D Victoria Model

That looks good, although my first impression was "Mr Bill Crater" Ohh Nooo!!!....

--Bill

[Shaka]

3D Victoria model

Kewl. Can you prepare an anaglyph?
P.S. Do your kids know you stole their modelling clay?

[imipak]

Whew! I'm not nearly as worried about the apparent steepness of Victoria's walls...if you look at the 3d image of Endurance it looks like a monsterous drop too, but we all know what it was really like. Check out the attachment of Victoria side by side with Endurance.

I must be getting pessimistic in my old age, because I just can't see any way into Victoria. The most "nearly" point must be just south of the prominent feature at around 4 o'clock, but even there the break in the upper 'crust' appears (to my ignorant eyes) to be perhaps half the entire depth of Endurance. Even if the sand 'ramp' is firm enough to support Oppy, and the angle is sufficiently shallow for Oppy to negotiate, how could she safely navigate the highest outcrop? I'd love to be proved wrong by events about this, as well as the arrival date...

How thick IS that layer, anyway? It must be a couple of meters at the very least.

Of course I'm speculating wildly... the resolution in those images must be a couple of meters at least, impossible to see how smooth or steep the slopes are at rover-scale.

[djellison]

Err - that IS an anaglyph.

Doug

[Shaka]

Aha! That explains the multicolored modelling clay! O.K. I've looked now with my anaglyph glasses, but to accurately assess the model I'll need some critical statistics: Is it a soup bowl or a pasta plate? It's important!

[djellison]

Found the source of my tender-to-endurance-brain-fart...

The crater just north of the 'speed record' drive is called James Caird - and that WAS one of tenders to the Endurance, the one in which Shackleton et.al. set out to get help for the rest of the crew.

For those that have not - get, beg, steel, buy, borrow a copy of Channel 4's dramatisation of 'Shackleton' with Ken "3 hour long Hamlet" Brannagh...excellent all round

Doug

[Pando]

3D Victoria model

Now THAT's obsession...!

Reminds me of Close Encounters of the Third Kind where the folks were frantically modeling the Devil's Tower...

[edstrick]

Actually, I was wondering if this was the Aardman Animation version of Victoria crater.

More cheese, Gromit?

[AndyG]

The crater just north of the 'speed record' drive is called James Caird - and that WAS one of tenders to the Endurance, the one in which Shackleton et.al. set out to get help for the rest of the crew.

For those that have not - get, beg, steel, buy, borrow a copy of Channel 4's dramatisation of 'Shackleton' with Ken "3 hour long Hamlet" Brannagh...excellent all round

Totally agree, Doug. Quite off-topic, the James Caird is still in existence at Dulwich College in London, and is well-worth seeing. This 23-foot boat was sailed 1300 kilometres across the worst seas in the world, during an Antarctic winter, to allow Shackleton and three others to raise the alarm and promote a rescue of the other survivors of the wreck of the Endurance. A shame that the full story of this polar expedition was all-but buried during the Great War: but a fantastic achievement of human tenacity and skill in (blimey) a non-GPS/satellite telephone world.

...And now back to our regular channel of more modern exploration!

Andy G

[Stu]

Aha! That explains the multicolored modelling clay! O.K. I've looked now with my anaglyph glasses, but to accurately assess the model I'll need some critical statistics: Is it a soup bowl or a pasta plate? It's important!

Don't worry Shaka, no childrens' modelling clay was used or stolen in the preparation of the model - it was actually not modelling clay, but that "blu-tac" sticky stuff you use to put up posters with... dimension wise it's a humble cereal bowl, nothing as fancy as a pasta plate. It's probably too deep to be honest, but all the others I had in the cupboard had designs on them, and as hard as I look at the MGS images I can't see sheepdogs, bramble hedges or cute little puppies on Victoria's floor...

And Pando, you're right, there I was in my front room, surrounded by twigs, dirt and bits of fence, having failed to recreate Victoria with a bin lid. A cereal bowl seemed the only alternative as I knelt there saying "This is important.... this is important...!"

Seriously tho, making that model made Victoria seem much more real somehow, and although they aren't good enough to share because of the sheer inaccuracy of the features, I had great fun taking pics from different points around the rim and "looking" at the view over to the other side. I guess it's all to do with us human beings having more of a connection with something physical than a picture...

[SkyeLab]

Brilliant Crater Stu,

Now I know what to do with the millions of ash trays that will be redundant when the UK-wide smoking-in-public-places ban comes into force next year............

Brian