djellison
Nov 29 2008, 12:56 PM
CODE
4. What EDRs did we request?
Expected EDRs by sequence number and image type:
Sol Seq.Ver ETH ESF EDN EFF ERP Tot Description
----- -------- --- --- --- --- --- ---- -----------
01724 p1550.01 2 0 1 0 0 3 navcam_tau
01724 p1588.03 6 0 6 0 0 12 navcam_cloud_movie_right_eye_pri_57
01724 p2600.12 2 2 0 0 2 6 pancam_tau
01725 p0060.02 40 40 0 0 0 80 photon_transfer_left_navcam
01725 p2601.03 4 2 0 0 2 8 pancam_tau_L78R48
01726 p1588.03 6 0 6 0 0 12 navcam_cloud_movie_right_eye_pri_57
01727 p0061.01 40 40 0 0 0 80 photon_transfer_right_navcam
01728 p0064.01 40 40 0 0 0 80 photon_transfer_left_front_hazcam
01728 p1588.03 6 0 6 0 0 12 navcam_cloud_movie_right_eye_pri_57
01729 p0065.01 40 40 0 0 0 80 photon_transfer_right_front_hazcam
01730 p0066.01 40 40 0 0 0 80 photon_transfer_left_rear_hazcam
01730 p1588.03 6 0 6 0 0 12 navcam_cloud_movie_right_eye_pri_57
01731 p0067.01 40 40 0 0 0 80 photon_transfer_right_rear_hazcam
01732 p0068.02 40 40 0 0 0 80 photon_transfer_mi
01732 p1588.03 6 0 6 0 0 12 navcam_cloud_movie_right_eye_pri_57
01733 p0062.01 40 40 0 0 0 80 photon_transfer_left_pancam
01734 p0063.01 40 40 0 0 0 80 photon_transfer_right_pancam
01734 p1588.03 6 0 6 0 0 12 navcam_cloud_movie_right_eye_pri_57
01736 p1588.03 6 0 6 0 0 12 navcam_cloud_movie_right_eye_pri_57
01738 p1588.03 6 0 6 0 0 12 navcam_cloud_movie_right_eye_pri_57
01740 p1588.03 6 0 6 0 0 12 navcam_cloud_movie_right_eye_pri_57
Total 422 364 55 0 4 845
Looks like a busy time - the Photon Transfer sequences are interesting, I'll ask some Q's as to what that's about. With a healthy rover, Conjunction must be frustrating. Safe, low data volume, but time consuming sequences are all good
Doug
SpaceListener
Nov 29 2008, 04:43 PM
The programming activities are for 14 Sol. I tought that the conjunction will last 3-4 weeks if the communication between Mars and Earth is allowed only up to 5 degree from the Sun. The 14 Sol, means that the communication between two planets is up to 3 degree from the Sun.
djellison
Nov 29 2008, 05:22 PM
The 14 sols is simply what's available on the PCDB at the moment. There may be a longer plan - I don't know - we've been told elsewhere how long conjunction will actually last.
Doug
SpaceListener
Nov 30 2008, 11:13 PM
About PCDB, I have not found any meaning from Google Search engine. In fact, it has many meanings. I imagine it might refer to an database where the information is kept.
Changing the theme, about the photon transfer, I searched it and I think I have not concluded it except it might be narrowed down:
QUOTE
Hence, conservation of momentum requires that at least two photons are created, with zero net momentum. The energy of the two photons—or, equivalently, their frequency—may be determined from conservation of four-momentum. Seen another way, the photon can be considered as its own antiparticle. The reverse process, pair production, is the dominant mechanism by which high-energy photons such as gamma rays lose energy while passing through matter.
The classical formulae for the energy and momentum of electromagnetic radiation can be re-expressed in terms of photon events. For example, the pressure of electromagnetic radiation on an object derives from the transfer of photon momentum per unit time and unit area to that object, since pressure is force per unit area and force is the change in momentum per unit time.
Reference from Wikipedia.
djellison
Nov 30 2008, 11:32 PM
It's the database of MER images maintained at Cornell.
mcaplinger
Dec 1 2008, 12:12 AM
QUOTE (SpaceListener @ Nov 30 2008, 03:13 PM)
about the photon transfer...
Photon transfer is a technique to compute the gain and noise of a camera system from multiple images at different signal levels, originally developed by Jim Janesick when he was at JPL.
http://www.couriertronics.com/docs/notes/c...tion_Method.pdf
centsworth_II
Dec 1 2008, 06:58 AM
QUOTE (SpaceListener @ Nov 29 2008, 11:43 AM)
The programming activities are for 14 Sol. I tought that the conjunction will last 3-4 weeks...
according to
Steve Squyres' comments to ustrax, Opportunity will be ready to move on about mid December. It looks to me like the planning to sol 1740 brings us to that point.
SpaceListener
Dec 1 2008, 03:33 PM
Good for the clarification about PCDB, Photon Transfer Curve (really good article) and the conjunction dates. Many thanks!
Oersted
Dec 1 2008, 07:37 PM
The Christmas holidays come early to the MER crew this year
Nirgal
Dec 1 2008, 10:54 PM
QUOTE
Opportunity will be ready to move on about mid December.
Wow, now that's great news !
I was afraid that the immobility break would last at least until after christmas/new year ...
Does anyone know whether we will be in restricted or unrestricted sols by the time we resume our journey ?
RoverDriver
Dec 1 2008, 11:00 PM
QUOTE (Nirgal @ Dec 1 2008, 02:54 PM)
Wow, now that's great news !
I was afraid that the immobility break would last at least until after christmas/new year ...
Does anyone know whether we will be in restricted or unrestricted sols by the time we resume our journey ?
Opportunity will be rated R for the first week after Conjunction. Before we drive off we also need to complete IDD work on Santorini.
Paolo
SpaceListener
Dec 2 2008, 01:48 PM
An new Oppy activity during the conjunction:
QUOTE
This coming weekend, engineers plan another attempt to remove dust from the miniature thermal emission spectrometer mirror by shaking it.
http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Opportuni...ndence_999.htmlHow can Oppy shake her solar panels?
Driving over the rocks?
djellison
Dec 2 2008, 01:51 PM
From Mini-TES - not the solar panels. Mini-TES has a mirror at the top of the mast, which is caked in dust - they will shake it in an attempt to get rid of some of the dust.
Doug
jamescanvin
Dec 2 2008, 02:41 PM
And although that report you link is dated with today's date, it is a verbatim copy of a rover update that was posted on the MER site nearly two weeks ago! Very poor 'journalism' there.
So by 'this coming weekend' read 'a week or so ago'
The Rover Update on the Planetary Society says that the shake has already happened and failed to dislodge any dust (or the dust is on other optical parts) and they will now just leave the cover open and hope for a wind cleaning event.
James
I really don't want to dash hopes of recovering the m-TES. But let's look at the facts; it is much easier for fine dust to drift into the pancam mast shaft and collect onto horizontal surfaces at the bottom i.e optics. The exposed (vibrated) mirror would be less likely to collect dust due to its slanting orientation as such */*. Again, apologies to all disturbed ones.
dvandorn
Dec 2 2008, 04:35 PM
Well, yes, but... it's my understanding that this "shaking" plan actually improved the dust situation on Spirit's mini-TES. So while in Oppy's case the main dust problem may be in the internal optics, it was certainly worth a shot.
-the other Doug
RoverDriver
Dec 2 2008, 04:56 PM
QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 2 2008, 08:35 AM)
Well, yes, but... it's my understanding that this "shaking" plan actually improved the dust situation on Spirit's mini-TES. So while in Oppy's case the main dust problem may be in the internal optics, it was certainly worth a shot.
-the other Doug
AFAIK the MTES shake was run on the testbed and on MERB but never on MERA. Do you remember what Sol it should have run on MERA or do you have a reference regarding your statement? I'm not arguing with you, I ask only to refine my search and see if and when it was run so I can look up the activity.
On MERB we ran the MTES shake on sol 1680 (for 3 seconds) and 1705 (for 6 seconds) and I thought we were going to do a MTES shake before Conjunction but I see that we didn't. And so far I have not heard that either one resulted in significant improvement on the MTES functionality.
Paolo
RoverDriver
Dec 2 2008, 05:02 PM
QUOTE (Doc @ Dec 2 2008, 07:30 AM)
I really don't want to dash hopes of recovering the m-TES. But let's look at the facts; it is much easier for fine dust to drift into the pancam mast shaft and collect onto horizontal surfaces at the bottom i.e optics. The exposed (vibrated) mirror would be less likely to collect dust due to its slanting orientation as such */*. Again, apologies to all disturbed ones.
I don't have any way to prove my statement, but if you blow into an open tube the air is free to go through but if the tube is closed at one end, the effects of blowing will be felt only close to the open end. It is likely thet the depth of the effect will depend on the dynamic pressure but I believe that the additional deposition at the bottom of the mast would be minimal compared with the possible cleaning on the mirror. Moreover, the MTES is already completely blinded by dust so I doubt this will make things worse.
This is my uneducated view. I participated on the MTES shake activity but definitely am not a MTES expert.
Paolo
dvandorn
Dec 2 2008, 05:44 PM
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Dec 2 2008, 10:56 AM)
AFAIK the MTES shake was run on the testbed and on MERB but never on MERA. Do you remember what Sol it should have run on MERA or do you have a reference regarding your statement? I'm not arguing with you, I ask only to refine my search and see if and when it was run so I can look up the activity.
As with many things, I recall reading something but not exactly where and when. My memory is that when the regional dust storm hit at Gusev, there was some update somewhere (surely either posted here or linked to from here) stating that MERA (i.e., Spirit) had just completed a mini-TES shaking and that initial results looked promising. The news was in juxtaposition to the new dust storm, irony in the possibility that just after getting her mini-TES dusted off, a bunch more dust got dumped on the poor girl.
As with anything, I admit the possibility of remembering this incorrectly.
-the other Doug
centsworth_II
Dec 2 2008, 05:58 PM
The
October 31, 2008 Planetary Society update indicated that the shake would be tried on Opportunity first:
If Opportunity is able to get the “Mini-TES shake” to work, the MER team will have Spirit try it, Ruff said. “Spirit’s Mini-TES is not completely blind, but it is legally impaired,” he said. “If we have success on Opportunity, we'll try it on Spirit.”
If vibrating the Mini-TES mirrors doesn’t work, the MER team has another trick....Open the Mini-TES mirror to the outside and hope.... Mars sends a gust of wind to blow away the dust.
RoverDriver
Dec 2 2008, 09:26 PM
QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Dec 2 2008, 09:58 AM)
The
October 31, 2008 Planetary Society update indicated that the shake would be tried on Opportunity first:
If Opportunity is able to get the “Mini-TES shake” to work, the MER team will have Spirit try it, Ruff said. “Spirit’s Mini-TES is not completely blind, but it is legally impaired,” he said. “If we have success on Opportunity, we'll try it on Spirit.”
If vibrating the Mini-TES mirrors doesn’t work, the MER team has another trick....Open the Mini-TES mirror to the outside and hope.... Mars sends a gust of wind to blow away the dust.Ah, this seems more plausible. I would be surprised if the MTES shake will be tried on MERA before it will give some significant signs on MERB. We'll see in a couple of weeks!
Paolo
jamescanvin
Dec 2 2008, 10:42 PM
Well I see the images have been very ratty over the last few days/sols so it looks like conjunction really has started now (unlike when I posted my Bonestell update
)
So here is the first bit of the Santorini Panorama that made it down largely intact.
James
djellison
Dec 2 2008, 11:00 PM
Very much like ye-olde Erebus pan from back in the day
CosmicRocker
Dec 3 2008, 02:05 AM
Nice logo.
Pando
Dec 3 2008, 04:18 AM
Assuming that these plates were once flush with the terrain, I think it's interesting to speculate what mechanism would lift them out of place like that...
Martian manhole covers...:
Vultur
Dec 3 2008, 04:38 AM
QUOTE (Pando @ Dec 3 2008, 05:18 AM)
I think it's interesting to speculate what mechanism would lift them out of place like that...
Could it be wind? If one of the flat plates cracked upward (just from vibrations or some other stress) to the point where wind could get under it, maybe that lifted it. Does anyone have any numbers for wind pressure on Mars -- would it be enough to do that?
dvandorn
Dec 3 2008, 05:43 AM
Perhaps something exposed the rock below the former sand line and the wind got in and eroded the rock out from below? Remember, the rock probably eroded down flat to ground level a few hundred million years ago, and then something (perhaps ground shock from the Victoria impact) pushed it up a little bit, and over several hundred million years, the less armored underside of the rock has been eroding away?
We're talking long time frames here, you know?
-the other Doug
CosmicRocker
Dec 3 2008, 06:09 AM
QUOTE (Pando @ Dec 2 2008, 10:18 PM)
Assuming that these plates were once flush with the terrain, I think it's interesting to speculate what mechanism would lift them out of place like that...
I would guess the assumption that they were once flush with the current surface is unlikely. They appear to be taller parts of the pre-existing bedrock that have been somewhat undercut by erosion, and which are still attached to the blocks beneath them.
It is interesting to consider the possibilities of loose plates vibrating in a catastrophic wind, allowing nearby sand grains to lift the pieces above the existing plain, but I think this is simply undercutting of local layering by saltating grains. We've seen more spectacular examples of this form of erosion in many places on the Meridiani plains.
I agree with your statement CosmicRocker. But what really interests me is the distribution of spherules with distance. I really don't know how far away Oppy was at the time when we started seeing spherules excavated by Victoria. But even at the current distance (1.25km), spherules are abundant *on outcrop.* Are we really still on Erebus rocks?
SpaceListener
Dec 3 2008, 04:46 PM
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Dec 2 2008, 03:26 PM)
Ah, this seems more plausible.
It would be done after the conjunction. Not now, too late. It is nothing sure but, the important thing is the persistence, it will work. That is when at the end of work of day, before stopping, Oppy must be facing to the prevalence wind (NW -> SE). Hope, someday, a gust wind will hit it. The persistence will work!
CosmicRocker
Dec 6 2008, 07:18 AM
QUOTE (Doc @ Dec 3 2008, 01:01 AM)
... Are we really still on Erebus rocks?
Interesting... If I am reading the dips correctly, these rocks must be younger than those at Erebus, and younger than those near Beagle. I think I am seeing small spherules in the bedrock, so what does that mean to the groundwater hypothesis? ...yet a higher ancient water table, or a more recent water table that crossed the dipping beds? You have got to love extraplanetary roving cameras and MMB.
The spherules seem to be embeded and arranged in neat little strings of pearls. And the spherules seem to be concentrated in crest like structures in the rock much like the rocks at Eagle crater. I believe these rocks are of the eagle unit. I am particularly interested in what the brine splat hypothesis has to say. (Admin: I don't wish to start another debate;-)
Astro0
Dec 11 2008, 03:58 AM
You'll be happy to know that the next scheduled (DTE) tracking pass with Opportunity will be through the Canberra DSN complex at:
2100 UTC Tuesday 16th - 0135 UTC Wednesday 17th December 2008.
I think that'll be an appropriate point to start a new thread as Opportunity begins the next leg of its journey to Endeavour Crater
climber
Dec 11 2008, 09:59 PM
Thanks Astro!
So, where does today "download" come from?
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/
mhoward
Dec 11 2008, 10:14 PM
QUOTE (climber @ Dec 11 2008, 02:59 PM)
Images as recent as sol 1732 - four sols ago. Not "DTE" (direct-to-Earth), I guess, but information relayed through Odyssey. Still, I think that counts as good "Opportunity is still with us" news? I hope?
Astro0
Dec 12 2008, 12:13 AM
Climber:
So, where does today "download" come from?Odyssey. We still have contact with ODY, MRO despite conjunction.
I was only noting the first DTE comms with the MERs following conjunction.
Actually we have a few DTEs with both rover over the next few weeks.
So we'll getting our information from a first hand source.
Astro0
Stu
Dec 13 2008, 12:21 AM
Interesting rock visible in today's pancams...
Click to view attachmentMeteorite? Dunno... some smaller rocks that look like it are nearby... pretty little thing tho...
3D version
here...
nprev
Dec 13 2008, 12:53 AM
Sure looks like a meteorite to me, Stu; even seems like it's got the 'fingerprint' indentations often found on the iron-nickel ones!
Shaka
Dec 13 2008, 01:46 AM
Since it's Santorini, we should have the spectrometry now to determine that.
CosmicRocker
Dec 13 2008, 06:48 AM
QUOTE (Astro0 @ Dec 11 2008, 06:13 PM)
... We still have contact with ODY, MRO despite conjunction.
That's good to know, and interesting, too.
jamescanvin
Dec 13 2008, 01:40 PM
As Shaka says that rock is Santorini itself, so hopefully we'll know what it is soon.
Would it be a surprise if the cobbles turned out to be meteorites? I haven't been following the theories too closely.
It is nice that some data has continued getting through so we can keep our minds at rest about the health of our girls.
Shaka
Dec 13 2008, 07:17 PM
Undoubtedly, some cobbles are meteorites, that's been confirmed, but many more should be variously-modified impact ejecta from all over the planet. The meteors are flying around in space; the new craters are there, so the ejecta must be as well. It surely erodes away in time, but must persist to some degree at the present. It will represent pieces of the Martian surface rocks, and should erode at a similar rate, except insofar as it is metamorphosed by the shock of impact. Mild shock, at some distance from the impact point, may fracture and, hence weaken the rock, but heavy shock near the impact may variously melt ejecta to glasses. I'm sure the relative abundance of meteorites, ejecta and local rock will vary considerably from place to place, but in general I would guesstimate the meteorites to represent less than one percent of the cobbles. Distinguishing which are which may be difficult with the MERs, but we should be keeping a lookout for ablation surfaces and glassy tektite forms.
Doc
Dec 13 2008, 08:01 PM
Many cobbles that Oppy encountered back at Erebus and between the crater and Endurance were in the form of little piles. Those should mark the location of now eroded craters (right?
). The fact that Santorini is found sitting all alone implies that it was hurled from somewhere else and could potentially bear impact melts I believe.
Shaka
Dec 13 2008, 08:52 PM
I'm still waiting for MIs of Santorini, which could be enlightening, but the spectrograms are also key data.
My interpretation of some of the rubble piles north of Victoria was that they were the remains of large (meter-scale) clumps of ejecta thrown out of a fresh crater like Beagle, and shattered on impact with the plain. (It's a pity we didn't have the time to study the rubble close-up - maybe next time.) Generally, the eroded craters in the meters-scale range that we have seen, have been flat depressions with a few or no rocks near the center (perhaps the residue of the impactor). A pile of rubble with no sign of a circular rim around it is IMHO unlikely to be a primary crater, or even a high velocity secondary.
Stu
Dec 13 2008, 10:56 PM
Shaka
Dec 13 2008, 11:34 PM
Wow, dig that crazy rock, Jackson!
How much of that 'pixellated' pattern is real, and how much artifact of image processing?
Stu
Dec 13 2008, 11:41 PM
Well, almost ALL of it is crazy image processing pixellation Shak, I think that's pretty obvious
I just posted it as a curio.
nprev
Dec 14 2008, 12:36 AM
The fingerprint-lookin' things are very obvious, though. At the very least, it sure does look like deep bedrock...igneous or metamorphic. A chunk of basalt, maybe even olivine?
CosmicRocker
Dec 14 2008, 06:09 AM
I'd have to imagine that the population of cobbles is quite diverse in it's origins. Meteorites of various kinds have been acknowledged over the course of the missions. Many of the cobble patches seem to also be very consistent with secondary impact debris. A lot of the patches also resemble “pretty old” gravel deposits seen on Earth, like the Uvalde gravel deposits of Texas and it's environs. I'd love to find a paper that explored the origins of coarser sediments on Mars.
Juramike
Dec 15 2008, 06:12 PM
I suppose one possibility is that these might be really, really old (basaltic?) ejecta that were buried in the depositing Meridiani layers, then later exposed as the more friable Meridiani materials eroded free.
So fossil ejecta blocks, as it were.
I wonder if the pavement patterns at the base of the cobble could discount this possibility?
-Mike
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.