Hubble may be on the blink, but the data analysis and discoveries roll on:

Hubble Announces A Major Extrasolar Planet Discovery


WASHINGTON -- NASA will hold a Science Update to report on a significant discovery about planets orbiting other stars at 2:30 p.m. EST, Thursday, Nov. 13, in NASA's James E. Webb auditorium. This unique discovery, made by the Hubble Space Telescope's Advance Camera for Surveys instrument, also will be featured in the Nov. 14 issue of the journal Science.

The briefing participants are:
-- Ed Weiler, associate administrator of NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington
-- Sara Seager, associate professor of Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Mass.
-- Paul Kalas, assistant adjunct professor, Physics and Astronomy Department, University of California at Berkeley.
-- Mark Clampin, James Webb Space Telescope Observatory project scientist, NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md.
-- Marc Kuchner, exoplanet scientist, Astrophysics Science Division, NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md.

Reporters attending the event will have an opportunity to ask questions. News media representatives not attending will be able to ask questions via teleconference. To participate in the teleconference, reporters must email a request for dial-in information that includes their media affiliation and telephone number to J.D. Harrington at j.d.harrington@nasa.gov by 1 p.m. EST, Nov. 13.

Feel stupid replying to myself... but I can't resist. I bet they're announcing a planet around Fomalhaut. Hope I'm not stealing anyone's thunder if I'm right

Good guess me thinks. Looking at the research interests of the panelists, we got someone interested in transiting planets, another interested in circumstellar disks, and another interested in possible white dwarf planets. A transiting planet around a white dwarf + circumstellar disk

We've also been following this story here:
http://solar-flux.forumandco.com/extrasola...hubble-t164.htm

We may have got the possible discovery reduced down to a list of possible star systems, based on looking at what the ACS has been targeted at over the length of this year


That wouldn't make much sense. As the instrument was the ACS, it's most likely transit related. Fomalhaut's circumstellar disk is inclined at a non-transiting angle. If planets are forming in the Fomalhaut system, they should be at the same inclination as the disk, as observed at Eps Eri.



Oohh... that's really unlikely. The chances of a planet transiting its star drop quickly with distance from the star. White dwarfs used to be giants, so no short-period planets are expected to exist around white dwarfs. Any planets orbiting white dwarfs would likely have long periods and large separations, making observing them in transit extremely difficult. Another factor is the diameter of the star. White dwarfs aren't exactly large, making the chances of finding a transiting planet around them even smaller. Though, if a gas planet "transits" a white dwarf, it would be more like an eclipse. White dwarf just disappears, so it would be really obvious.

I'm not saying that either of these cases are impossible though. It would really brighten my day if one of these turned out to be the discovery.

Thanks for posting.... I'll be watching this for sure....

Just been navigating through the exoplanet encyclopedia at http://exoplanet.eu/... excellent site...

Kuchner has co-authored several papers regarding white dwarf stars and exozodiacal dust including a rebently puplished paper entitled "The Detectability of Exo-Earths and Super-Earths Via Resonant
Signatures in Exozodiacal Clouds" http://fr.arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0810/0810.2702v1.pdf

Seager has co-authored many papers regarding super-earth class planets as well as theorectical modeling of mass-raduis relationships for exoplanets... see "MASS-RADIUS RELATIONSHIPS FOR SOLID EXOPLANETS"
http://fr.arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0707/0707.2895v1.pdf

Kalas has many co-authored papers regarding debris disks around other stars..

Clampin, ditto on circumstellar dust creation...

Being this is a Hubble ACS discovery I would put my money on something to do with debris disks and exoplanet detection.

For those interested goto http://fr.arxiv.org/abs/0808.2754 and use the search engine on the upper right ...
input a name or subject to navigate through the astrophysics catalog of papers... I find this a wonderful resource...

Craig

Well, we have lots of exoplanets, so it's got to be something unique - not "just" another hot Jupiter. It says "a significant discovery about planets orbiting other stars" - maybe some new information on how they're formed? A complex solar system like our own? A potential life-bearing world?

Maybe a double planet? Just a wild guess.

Hi,
Reason I mention Fomalhaut, is that Paul Kalas's main project with the HST is the Fomalhaut Deep Field. It is also his only listed research project with the HST for extrasolar planets. He presented during 2005 about his observations of it (Evidence for A Planetary System Sculpting Fomalhaut's Dust Belt ). Perhaps this is a new discovery based off a pre-2008 observation campaign?

Addendum - also Paul Kalas has done previous observing campaigns for planets (technically "sub-stellar companion") using the ACS coronagraph. I assume this is based off an observation run he made post 2005.

Daniel

Maybe something about ring systems around many exoplanets.

Well, with the detection of planets around other stars pretty much routine these days, it has to be something special, like:

The smallest planet yet found so far - maybe down to Earth size or a bit larger;

The detailed composition of an extrasolar planet's atmospere or maybe even surface;

The transit of a small extrasolar planet, or

The first detection of a large moon of an extrasolar planet.

I assume it can't be anything REALLY earth-shattering (a world emitting radio messages or something ) or they'd be lining up the world media.

IIRC the ACS has seen rings, i.e., a disk where the central area has presumably been cleared by orbiting bodies. Would it be able to image a ring system with two or more cleared zones?

Unless we're talking SBC, then the observations would have to predate Jan 2007, when ACS/WFC and HRC stopped working. If we are talking SBC, my guess would be lifetimes of disks (SBC has been very busy observing photoevaporation effects on disks).

How about a transiting "exothingy" deeply embedded in a circumstellar disk?

Something early on in the process of clearing out it's zone. [And no further comment from me regarding definitions]
I'd think that'd be a pretty huge discovery.

-Mike

I think any sort of exoplanet-related detection by HST is always pretty major, and it'll be of great interest to enthusiasts such as ourselves. However, as always, be prepared to be underwhelmed... ...doubt that whatever it is will be of much interest to the mass media.

Maybe an Earth-size planet within the band that would make liquid water on the surface possible?

Last HST exoplanet discovery release was the SWEEPS planets back in Oct 2006. Only two of which were confirmed, the rest are still waiting sensitive enough radial velocity measurements (host stars are too dim, leading to low signal-to-noise ratios). Both planets were run-of-the-mill hot Jupiters. A significant underwhelming.

An Earth-mass planet would certainly be nice, but I doubt one can be conclusively found. Radial velocity sensitivity isn't quite that high yet. An Earth-radius planet might be detectable with HST, but I doubt it. Maybe if the host star is small, like a red dwarf or something. CoRoT is better suited to detect terrestrial exoplanets.

In the comming years I am hoping for a super jupiter in the goldilocks zone with pretty earth size moons with water in the spectra of the moons atmoshere!

Some interesting speculations here:
http://scienceblogs.com/catdynamics/2008/1...s_far_to_go.php

*jumps on the (embargo) bandwagon*

I've seen the post of a blogger that actually catched it the day after.

Some have already figured out what the discovery is. The documentation is, after all, publicly available.

Ha hell I correctly guessed the 10th planet discovery announcemet by 10 hours at yahoo groups..........................not that i know any thing but was wacthing........................and sometimes I do know something

Astronomers capture first images of multi-planet system around another star

A team of researchers from Canada, the US, and the UK has become the first to capture images of a multi-planet system around a normal star, much like our own solar system.

http://www.stfc.ac.uk/PMC/PRel/STFC/Gemini.aspx

This is from the STFC RSS feed, the URI doesn't work yet.

That may refer to this news:

http://www.keckobservatory.org/printer_fri...with.php?id=228

(probably not related to this pending announcement)

I have been expecting light curve data on transiting exo-planets to eventually reveal either a binary planet, a ringed planet, or one that is enmooned. (or let's go for broke, and maybe have one object exhibit multiple characteristics)

Seems like I saw speculation somewhere that 'steps' in the light curve for these objects would indicate rings and such, if they were large enough, and unless there is some dynamical effect of close stellar proximity that might disrupt such features, I am hopeful we get to 'see' something along these lines sooner or later. A silicate type moon (like Io) should be refractory enough to withstand large stellar flux, but if the 'mechanism' that puts these large planets in close proximity to their host stars also affects attendant moon orbits, maybe we never get to examine an example of this.

I think that actually may be a competing announcement. Ouch! It'll be hard for Hubble to top that - an actual image of a 3 planet system!

Wow! that is impressive - dtolman is right, the Hubble announcement is going to have a hard time beating this.

The image links don't work in the link Fran gave, try here instead

In fact I think that image deserves to be inline.


EDIT: It looks like the Keck press release and images has been taken down.

I agree. You beat me to that image post by 5 minutes James! This is indeed the beginning of the future.

Hints at "the second week of September" on catdynamics make me think that it refers to "episodic accretion of cometary material"

Wow. This makes me wonder what kind of technology and innovation we will have in 50 years and what we might see then.

Maybe someone can dig the image out of their cache. I can't figure out where anything is on the Vista system I'm running here.

I printed it out, but didn't think to save it to the hard drive. =(.

And no, the HST release isn't as good as this Keck release.

Looks like Keck pulled the whole thing off the website - maybe the didn't realize that the Hubble announcement was today, and felt bad about stepping on toes?

From another source:

An overseas press site screwed up the embargo... If you want to be spoiled:
Its gratifying to know that the research and data parsing skills they taught me in High School still aren't failing me, my initial prediction was spot on. Hubble snaps a pic of a planet orbiting Fomalhaut during Paul Kalas's observation campaign. Goto google news, and search for the terms keck and extrasolar.

Oh those poor Hubble scientists... definitely a cool announcement but man, Keck really stole their thunder.

For Paul Kalas's sake, I'll pretend not to know about the Keck one, so his personal research triumph can have a few moments to shine. It really is a great discovery, and he'll always be able to say that he got in this particular first...

Three planets circling a naked eye star I'll be able to see from my backyard tonight... wonderful, just wonderful...

GLORIOUS times we live in!

Some more on this from Phil P...

The gemini press release is up - better than the late Keck one, imho.

http://www.gemini.edu/node/11151

...

and the Hubble announcement is up now too!
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/s.../fomalhaut.html


Daniel

This summarizes all announcements:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0811...-exoplanet.html

I'd say the Hubble discovery is just as spectacular as the Keck/Gemini discovery. It's a smaller planet (3 Jupiter masses rather than 6-10 Jupiter masses for the Keck/Gemini planets, assuming all those numbers are reliable), and is thus more like those in our own solar system, and it's seen in reflected light rather than by its internal heat radiation, which provides a whole different way to study it (if it has water ice rings, for instance, we might be able to detect them spectroscopically).

Both results are amazing, anyway.

John.

Is that Formalhaut or the Eye of Sauron?

Very cool discoveries.

So we have a system of 3 hot planets detected by their intrinsic IR (Gemini/Keck), and a single (somewhat smaller?) planet imaged by the visible light from it's parent star, but probably with a large contribution from light scattered by a surrounding moon-forming disc or ring close to the planet. One has to question whether this planet could have been detected by light reflected from it's globe alone.

Has anyone got information on the object's visual magnitude, or of what magnitude would have been expected from simple reflection off a globe at that distance from Fomalhaut?

These are both giant steps, but there are still plenty of 'firsts' left for others to claim in future as more wonderful results come in.

All the Hbbble images (and videos) of Fomalhaut you could want, right here...

http://www.spacetelescope.org/news/html/heic0821.html

Well I was certainly wrong.
I underestimated HST. I wasn't aware it could do that
Very awesome discovery (both of them).

Delighted to be not at all underwhelmed!!! We have all at least lived long enough to actually see the worlds of other stars, the first such in all our history. THAT is humbling.

Truly historic

Very cool! It made the "top story" at CNN (as of 10 PM EST)!
http://www.cnn.com/

Permalink(?): http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/11/13/n...nets/index.html

I thought we'd have to wait until ACS was repaired to get a direct image of an extrasolar planet. Who knew, the shots had been taken years ago!

Thought I'd have a bash at the second question myself. I make the simplistic assumtion that the planet's globe appears the same brightness as Neptune's. (It may well be larger than Neptune and Fomalhaut's light is brighter than our Sun's, but it orbits considerably further out.) So, take Neptune to the distance of Fomalhaut and my back of the envelope estimate yields a visual magnitude of (edit) 29 or 30.

In this science paper http://www.spacetelescope.org/news/science...er/kalas_ms.pdf from page 13/14 there're explanations about the Photometry.

If I get it right they came to the result that our Saturn system would have a magnitude of 29.5 or about 4.5 mag too faint
compared to what is actually observed.