First off, not trying to bump new member Steve off, the man who's looking for contributions for his movie; urge all imagesmiths to check out his post here. However, I got curious about the ongoing Man Conquers Space movie project, and found this on YouTube; gave me chills. Worth a look!!!!!!

Yeah, I ran across this page about a year ago. Scroll down and check out the clip at the end of the page (there are multiple formats & sizes). Fantastic views of the famous von Braun Saturn Shuttle (a la the 1950's Colliers magazine articles).

http://manconquersspace.com/MCSMovieClips.html

Doug turned me on to it about then as well; sure hope this movie gets made!!! They seem to be making progress.

That new trailer, though...damn, it's powerful. The music is a big part of it; just perfect.

Don't know if its been discussed here... but besides the "Man Conquers Space" movie theme (i.e., the future isn't what it used to be")... space enthusiast Ron Howard ("Apollo 13", and HBO series "From the Earth to the Moon") has a new Apollo Documentary coming out on Sept 28 in selected theaters. It has gotten rave early reviews. It uses many recent interviews and digitally restored archive footage. Sounds like a winner to see that footage cleaned up to be on the big screen.

http://www.intheshadowofthemoon.com/

I recognized that music score as taken from Peter Kuran's Trinity And Beyond documentary.

I've just been reading about Colliers in my new Spaceflight magazine.

Of course I've already heard of Von Braun, but I did'nt know about Colliers and the Braun / Ryan articles. Ryan also wrote The Longest Day, and A bridge Too Far historical books that were also made into films, that are a little more in my time. I was born in 1970.

I'm only just beginning to appreciate the pure determination and vision of these people. Presumably after seeing the disaster of WW2, they could see the potential of Space Exploration to galvanise our interests into more productive directions.

In the same issue is an article about Cece Bibby. A graphic artist who painted logo's on the Mercury craft and other missions. A Logo specifically requested by John Glenn before he went into space. But a request that did'nt entirely make his superiors happy (shades of The Write Stuff). They did'nt want to let a woman ... Cece ... up onto the Gantry ! Apparently all the astronauts were pranksters playing jokes on one another. Cece almost got sacked for placing a picture of a naked lady she'd painted in the spaceship periscope for John Glenn to see just before countdown ! I get the feeling this 50 th anniversary is going to be throwing up these endlessly fascinating histories.

I was trying to get a discussion going on the Nasa Space Flight forum, but maybe I phrased it wrong, I don't know. I wonder if the world has a somewhat skewed vision of our 50 year old Space Age at the moment. Something that this "Man Conquers Space" film may address. I keep hearing this "What is the point of the ISS" from some quarters, maybe they're just uninformed. After all we are going through the biggest Paradigm Shift since we first started crawling out of caves, or trees or whatever it was. Some people should really answer these questions a lot better in my opinion. My New Scientist issue points out that if it were'nt for Sputnik then Eisenhower would not have increased funding to Science education. If he had'nt we would probably be living in a very different world.

"Stroll through a University Campus in the US today and notice the dates on the Science buildings. Everywhere you look, much of infrastructure that supports the training of scientists in the US was built in the years immediately after Sputniks flight."

If not, would we have the internet ? Would the 80's have been as they were ?

Actually the "Man Conquers..." film reminds me of the ST: Enterprise episode ... "In a Mirror Darkly", but not because of the "darkly" bit, just because of the "what if" element

MouseOnMars

See the Collier's section at Fabio Feminò's science fiction site.


Paolo Amoroso

Thankyou Paolo !

Here are the publications I was looking at when I was a kid.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

More fiction than Science fiction, but no less inspiring to a small boy than those Colliers articles, I guess. Much more about Man's far future and exploration beyond the Solar System. Maybe this is why I always see Mars as some kind of analog of an alien Planet "out there", more than the planet next door, after reading these books.

Interesting political discussion on those pages ( I'm afraid I used google translation, my Italian is a bit basic ). I've only really just begun examining recent history in that light. While the Vietnam war was being fought all these space missions were going on. Mercury, Gemini, Apollo. All those Vietnam films, the history lessons. The philosophical discussions that taught me to agonise over our "war like ways", seemed to forget to figure in the space missions. Political I guess. But I'd hardly say that Von Braun's hopes have been diverted. Maybe a little delayed. The ISS bears a remarkable resemblance to the Colliers predictions, apart from not being a hoop. Apart from Apollo, the other missions have used increasing miniaturisation, computers, robotics, and, I'd argue, a form of "telepresence" not predicted by Colliers or even Von Braun. How many of us sit in our "Astronaut Armchairs" connected to the Rovers, or other probes through the internet ? Of course that can never replace actually being there, but that seems soon to come.

MouseOnMars

Mouse, I wish that I could be believe that was true...but I can't. Those enough old enough to remember Apollo & the national committment to the space program witnessed a massive amount of coordinated & fully supported effort that took the US from suborbital flight capability only to routine lunar landings in just barely more than eight years...and then everything went away, as if it all was just a dream. The current US Moon/Mars initiative is a pale ghost of Mercury/Gemini/Apollo in terms of national goals and public interest, and is consumed by projectitis like almost everything else in government in this era...I frankly don't give it much of a chance the way things are today.

Here's how things were then: My dad, a baker, was so convinced in 1966 that space exploration was THE wave of the future that he mounted a poster of the Solar System on a cardboard backing, and had me learn the planets, not only their distances from the Sun but also in order of size (as understood at the time). I was three years old, couldn't even read yet, loved it, was fascinated by it...still am. But it's not like that today, nor was it after Apollo 11 for many reasons, and that's why achieving these goals is so damn hard now.

This is why I personally feel that Man Conquers Space is a seminally important movie that must be made. Although retro in theme, it will evoke important memories in Baby Boomers, who are now at their peak point of economic and political influence. That brilliant tag line in the new trailer for 2007 in that reality: "There are 6.5 billion humans. 420,000 live off world. There's room for plenty more." Want the BBs to think on that, feel some outrage at a future lost that so many of us of that generation experience from time to time (or constantly!), take some action.

A former American president once asked on a different issue, "If not us, who? If not now, when?" That's the question that millions of people must ask about the human exploration of the Solar System. This movie will help that to happen.

Wow!! We have the same bookshelf!! I devoured those books as a kid... loved the Peter Elson illustrations especially, they've inspired me almost as much as Bonestell's and others. Thanks for triggering some v happy memories!

BTW, and this is a long shot here except possibly for Emily... ...does anybody have any way of turning Ron Howard and/or Steven Spielberg on to Man Conquers Space? Seems to me that the producers could benefit from some sponsorship at this level...

They'd just ruin it by trying to make it 'appeal' to a 'wider' audience.

Doug

I can partly appreciate what you mean. I did not live through the Apollo era, although the first space image I remember seeing (aged 5!) was an artists rendition of the Apollo/Soyuz docking in 1975 with the astronauts joining hands through the airlock.

Maybe you could consider the viewpoint I have that is in some ways the one of the wider, younger generation. I have spent hours scrutinising Mars Global Surveyor images. Something I started in about 2000. So although I have not seen astronauts walking around on Mars, or grand space missions on the scale of Apollo, I nevertheless have lived out my Star Trek inspired space dreams of exploring an alien planet ... to the extent that a kind of telepresence can provide. Did you know that Robert Picardo, who plays the Doctor in Star Trek Voyager is on the advisory panel of the Planetary Society ? That some of those Voyager episodes are masterpieces of popularising Science ? Anyway I digress.

We do not have legions of Astronauts all over the solar system, but what we do have are legions of robotic explorers and telescopes like Hubble. From my perspective this seems entirely pragmatic, and wise. Can we assume what's out there ? Even in our own solar system ? Especially outside the solar system. I wonder if our intermittent human exploration is like that for a reason. Something that, afterall, only started in the 60's. It would be shame if things were permanently set back because we encounter some unknown set back, foolishly pushing forward because we want o fulfil childhood dreams, good as those are. The safer slow route is better in my opinion, we are hardly short of Scientific material in the mean time.

MouseOnMars

You mean Spielberg would put in a sequence where a small little girl is looking sad because the tooth fairy did'nt bring her the full Apollo mission ?

Actually, kidding aside, he probably would over sentimentalise the whole thing. But would that be so bad ? I'm starting to detect the worrying beginnings of a space elite developing if you ask me. The "real space people" who "really" understand what's it's all about ... vs... the Hoi polloi, who "don't understand Science".

Have you watched the Education sections of NASA TV ? The whole thing is geared to a wider audience. I could hardly believe my eye's at one point, as the NASA kids were discussing something and mentioned Jackie Chan. One of them said... "hey, Jackie is my friend, I could get him to visit". Of course we think he's joking, but then a helicopter lands next to where they're talking, and who gets out and says hello .... yep... THE Jackie Chan. He then went on to make a paper space plane that got launched off into the solar system (using effects).

Think I'm making this up ? Ask NASA TV.

MouseOnMars

Oh - I've seen the educational stuff at NASA - but it has VERY little to do with the subject in question here. This is nothing to do with understanding science or some sort of scientific elite - it's about being the intentions of the creator of MCS. It's not a 'story' - it's a 'what if'. It's a documentary of a technically demanding alternate timeline, not a sci-fi drama. It's a very unique work that needs to stand on its own.

Seriously - MCS is a labour of love for the guy making it - it's going to be a beautiful work that doesn't need tampering with by the usual suspects of Hollywood.

Doug

INLINE QUOTE REMOVED - Doug.

Well, I disagree. It's obviously a very powerful project. It does remind me of ST:Enterprise "In A Mirror Darkly", or even "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow".

Look where it starts ... in 1944, before the Second World War was over. Maybe it's just as well history did'nt go this way. Havn't we moved on from Von Braun's visions (with all respect to those) and the slightly over amped (if you ask me) visions of what is, afterall, called a space conquest. Should'nt we be going into space humbly ? With some kind of respect for whatever is out there ? Are we going to repeat all the mistakes of conquest here on earth all over again, out there ? What if there is life out there, intelligent life, even here in the solar system ? Will we miss or ignore it in our rush to "conquer" ?

I think this has everything to do with the aims of Science, and how the rest of this planet is included in space exploration. I understand your worries about "Survivor", or some of the worst examples of the popular media, but it's not all art disasters. What about the series "Lost", or many other very popular types of media that have a lot to say about the human condition. It's not all Spielberg hankees and "no brainers".

MouseOnMars

So are we looking forward to an alternate history documentary about spaceflight, or an alternate history study of the human condition?

Doug

This film looks stunning and great fun too, and I'll be there drooling over its beautiful images, and feeling my heart pumping with "What might have been" excitement too as inconsiderate chav idiots talk and crunch their popcorn and tortilla chips all around me (speaking of which, which frakking genius had the idea to sell perhaps the crunchiest snack In The World in cinemas?!?!), but I must admit to having ever so slightly mixed feelings about this kind of speculative piece, because in my experience of talking to school groups and community groups (Round Tables, Lions, WIs, etc), showing people material like this risks prompting a "Well, what we're doing now is RUBBISH compared to that! Why do we bother?!" reaction.

Sidestepping the whole political manned spaceflight debate so as not to be slapped across the back of the head by Doug, I'd also like to see some brave producer and director actually making a no holds barred film about the triumphs of the real life space program - right from the Vostok 1 flight thru Apollo and Skylab and Salyut and beyond, thru Hubble repair flights, MIR spacewalks and "incidents", the ISS construction missions, the shuttle tragedies... and not just manned missions, but the missions of Viking, Voyager, Galileo and Cassini, and our plucky little Mars rovers too, of course. Tell that story with the pride and realism of "Apollo 13", the edginess of "Galactica" and the effects and budget and sheer unashamed bravado of "Armageddon" and people would have a chance to fall in love with space exploration all over again. Shots of a 1950s von Braun rocket blasting off are beautiful, they're how rockets should look after all, with all those fins and engines, just beautiful... but take a movie audience on a swooping IMAX ride through Valles Marineris, or over an eruption Ionian volcano, or over the cracked surface of Europa, and you'll have people cheering in their seats. Why no-one has done this yet baffles me, it really does.

I think the closest we've come to such an Outreach "tool" if you like was the recent BBC series "Space Odyssey", which was a 2 part tour of the solar system essentially, based on the premise that we simply "kept going" after Apollo, and developed the tech to undertake a trip around the solar system. Ok, so the dialogue and script were so cheesy they could have been eaten by mice, and the characters were sketched out on the back of a stamp, but there was an epic quality to it, and the visuals were just gorgeous... If you haven't seen it, take a look, it's worth the dvd rental, trust me.

MCS looks seriously cool tho, can't wait to see it.

So you don't want want to have a discussion Doug. Sigh .

MouseOnMars

Or you might get .... "Yow! The Shuttle and ISS are all these dreams come true in our time!". Some people seem to get confused when our hard fought for dreams don't match up with the original idea exactly. Shame.

MouseOnMars

Been giving Outreach talks for (puffs on pipe like Gandalf) over 20 years now and have never had that response. Still, I can't claim that the shuttle and ISS are all MY dreams come true, so can't expect others to think like that.

If this film inspires and excites people I'm all for it, and wish its creators the very best of luck. I'm lucky enough to own both a 1956 copy of "The Exploration of Mars" ( by Willey Ley and Werner von Braun) and a 1950 copy of "The Conquest of Space" (Willy Ley), both illustrated by the great Chesley Bonestell of course. They're both looking their ages, with torn, tattered and creased covers, and their pages are vanilla yellow with that unmistakeble dusty-musty attic scent of Time Passed, but every time I open them it's like stepping through a Stargate into a world anda time that could and should have been... the pictures are just beautiful, especially the ones of the spacecraft in flight, and the absolute conviction that Mars is covered with lichen in moss is still charming even after all these years of images showing bare rocks and dust dunes...

Well, God. What do we want ? A carbon copy of those books flying around up there ? Reality is rarely like this if you ask me. Nothing is ever perfect. So why are we scrapping the Space Shuttle ? Why, or so it is rumoured, will we burn up the ISS in 2015 in some orgy of destruction ?! Actually I think sense will prevail and the ISS will be up kept. But I am not alone in these views and find it disturbing that some people keep suggesting that "I'm not making sense". Apart from the wonderful replies from the very knowledgeable people at Nasa Space Flight forum, I get a sort of sniping attitude from some quarters for daring to mention "fringe veiws". Actually they're not. My BIS Spaceflight magazine has an article ... "Thinking the Unthinkable" about how we seem to rip up working space plans every few years. Apollo, others, and now the Space Shuttle and ISS.

To me it seems like the work of a load of spoilt kids. "Your working space missions don't match up with the books I have on my bookshelf.... it's not good enough!". Well, it seems odd to me.

I also have an old tatty book that I picked up in Kendal (in the UK readers), called "The Book of Speed" filled with articles about machines from the 30's (it was published in 1934). One of the aircraft in it has the same lines and style as Von Braun's space rockets depicted in the film we are discussing ! We fly in passenger jets only dreamt of by the people of that era. Bullet trains fantasised about in that era. We have high powered race cars that were first being formulated in that era. In fact we seem to be surrounded by wonders piled upon wonders ... exactly the world depicted in "Man Conquers Space". It doesn't come with silver fins, but that's what it is.

MouseOnMars

I think you misunderstood my post there mate I was just making the point that those books were the "Outreach tools" that inspired people at that time; full of startling, new, original imagery and a real sense of optimism and determination, they opened people's eyes to possibility and adventure, and, I'm sure, made more than a few kids want to grow up to be scientists or engineers.

What we need is something like that NOW, a book, or a movie, that shows what we could really achieve if we set our minds to it. I actually think the Orion capsule is an ugly bug, as I've stated in previous posts right here; it looks like a stepped on Coke can next to the sleek, graceful shuttle which we're losing, sadly. I'd much rather see one of Chesley Bonestell's winged spaceplanes flying than Orion, but it's not going to happen, and all I can do is hope that private industry grasps the nettle and designs spacecraft that are both safe and aesthetically pleasing, because space is a beautiful place and should - or at least could - be explored in beautiful ships. Oh well, we'll see.

One day men and women will fly over Mars in ships so graceful they'd have been worthy of Ray Bradbury's martians, I'm certain of that. But I won't live to see them, and that's okay, because personally I am still awe-struck everytime I see a shuttle launch on TV, or go online and see new images taken by spacewalking astronauts...

Sorry Stu,

I'm having a funny day to day. I'll carry on some other time, when the clouds lift

MouseOnMars

Oh, yeah...but that's not what I meant. Was thinking in terms of resources & financing, with absolute artistic, design, and plot control still in the exclusive hands of the MCS team.

Spielberg is, after all, on the board of TPS, and Ron Howard directed Apollo 13 as well as the new In the Shadow of the Moon, IIRC. I mentioned these two very powerful Hollywood people specifically because I'm pretty certain that they'd "get" MCS. They're both Baby Boomers as well...

I know it's a labor of love, but even love costs $$$. I want to see this movie get made.

All I know is that I get goosebumps when I see that rendezvous in Mars orbit scene - no matter how many times I see it.

Yep -- the rendezvous at Mars scene is a direct translation of a Bonestell painting, updated to make Mars look real.

In Saunders' alternate history, btw, Fred Haise becomes the first man to set foot on Mars. I like that idea.

-the other Doug

FYI, out here at March AFB pulling Reserve duty I showed a couple of people this trailer. Pretty soon, I had about a dozen people watching; had to play it several times & e-mail the link around! These are non-space enthusiasts, and it really had an impact on them.

This movie has to get made.

Split Sputnik 50th posts into a new thread.

J

Update from the MCS website: apparently, it's to be shopped around @ Cannes next May looking for a patron...like I said before, somebody please call Spielberg and/or Ron Howard! (Actually, Tom Hanks would be a good guy to talk to as well.) They're the only people I can think of that have the resources to help and are likely to appreciate this work for what it is.

In fact, might be the perfect time to do this, given that the WGA is on strike & the MCS team is apparently based in Australia...