If you could photograph anywhere in Mars with any instrument on MRO, where would it be, and why? Just curious to hear some responses.

Gusev, Olympus Mons and Valles Marineris - heavily off Nadir, with MARCI

All of it with CTX, but Olympica Fossae's one of my favorite regions.
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/4_6_99...c2_108_msss.gif

And with HiRISE...APART from all the recent cave sightings - you've got them all, except two, MPL and B2 If you find the first, I can let the second go


Doug

The very lowest points of the Hellas Basin & the Valles Marineris complex with HiRISE repeatedly in order to look for signs of transient puddles...

Have we seen all those wild South Polar visual oddities with HIRISE yet? Arthur Clarke's so-called "banyan trees'" and the alleged CO2 "geysers" etc?

South Pole is only just coming out into sunlight now after the winter, so I'd have thought those would all be on the "too do" list in the next few months.

Doug

See, that's how busy I've been. I don't even know what season it is on Mars.

Would love to see MRO( imaging "my crater" on the edge of Ganges Chasma...

Click to view attachment

... just cos it was the first martian picture (yes, even before wide angle shots of Marineris and Mons) that made me fall in love with Mars...

Also, some more gully shots, looking right into the centre of ones showing that recent brightening...

Unlike Doug I can't let B2 go, I really want - no, I need - to see the probe or its remains, because ever since that awful, awful Christmas Day I've been frustrated at not knowing what happened.

Would love close-ups of the newly-found caves too, I get all tingly when I think of what could be lurking in them...

And some good shots of the interior of Marineris to give us some breathtaking 3D images, allowing me to convince myself I was there, above it, looking down. Same goes for the caldera on Olympus Mons. I want to be able to picture myself in it, looking up at the cliffs, spinning around and around in place seeing the walls whirl around me. I know MRO can't do that, but it could give me a snapshot...

Thank you.

I wonder if they could take an angle shot and get a
look at any layering in the walls of Valles Marineris.

Lots of images of Eberswalde delta!

There aren't any that have been released, but I do know that at least some pictures have been taken of the south pole area. I would venture that sometime reasonably soon, some will be released.

I know this will be a bit wierd to some, but as Mars Express has gone a very long way to killing off the people who believe that those features in Cydonia are not perfectly natural, a MRO run would seal these peoples fate for good. We could shut up people like RH for ever. So I would nominate Cydonia!

I'd like to see those too, but only because I think it's a fascinating geological site, not because it would end the "Face" theories; the Cydonian Myths will survive the death of the Sun, because no matter how clear the images are, no matter how incredible their resolution is, the Cydonian believers will always smile knowingly, shrug and fire back a one word reply that is impossible to argue with:

"Faked".

It's impossible to argue with because nothing we non-believers can do, or say, or show them, will convince them of the truth. Nothing. Not even when people stand on the plains of Cydonia and send back live video of the "Face" showing it is, indeed, just a hill, because the believers will just say "Well, of course, that's a faked feed... they're not showing what's really there". It's like the Moon Hoax theory - that is never, ever going to go away, because there'll always be someone, somewhere, willing to believe that it was all a sham. And in these days when CGI seamlessly blends the impossible with the physical, even when we do go back to the Moon and show astronauts standing in front of Eagle's descent stage the Hoaxers will say that it's just special effects. Absolutely no-win situation.

But, you know, I think many people who currently study Mars have a soft spot for the Face. Maybe it inspired them to get to know about the real Mars when they saw that grainy Viking image, or maybe they like the way it gives them a way of introducing people to the real wonders of Mars. I do that a lot in my talks, show The Face and describe what some people think it is, then show the people in the audience the true wonders of Mars. Always works well.

It wouldn't shut him up (RH) - because his entire career depends on it. He would simply find more artifacts at the limit of HiRise resolution, as he always does, with every image.

MGS MOC dedicated a small percentage of its high-res imaging to getting pictures of randomly selected areas on the premise that Viking images couldn't find all of the interesting spots on Mars with its resolution. The idea worked in that some smallish craters were found to have layering not obvious in Viking images. Some others interesting features were found as well. I would hope that HiRISE would get at least few semi-random images in craters that MOC never got to. Maybe images with a relatively small number of pixels, to not impact the high priority imaging. We all know there are lots of surprises waiting to be discovered on Mars.

I knew this one would come up eventually. When I first started working with HiRISE, and heard about the fact that they would allow requests from the general public, I mentioned it to 3 people, and each of them said the same thing "You guys should photograph that face on Mars". I can guarantee that there will be at least one picture of the area sometime relatively soon. It's not a hi-priority, but, well, I think the ops folks are already tired of getting email requests to photograph the area...

Just recall the fiasco that ensued when NASA, as a PR gimmick, brought America's oldest living person (I think he was more than 100 years old) out to the Cape to witness the Apollo 17 launch. This old guy was stout in his belief that no one had ever gone to the Moon, and after viewing the launch, his only comment was "I seen they went somewheres, but they sure as hell ain't goin' to the Moon!"

You could actually place Hoaxland onto a spaceship, fly him to the Moon and make him go and touch the remains of the Apollo equipment, and he'd *still* insist you were faking it somehow...

-the other Doug

How about the dark deposits (?) from this MOC public target image. It was originally spotted by HRSC here.

The THEMIS day and, especially, night images rule out an [EDIT] active geothermal origin, but the location of the deposits (on top of a mesa), the lack of any other similar deposits in the area and the "rays"/"wake lines" emanating from the small crater just North of the deposits have intrigued me since I first saw it.

While I don't want to be known as a R.H. defender, I will point out that he is not in the 'we never went' camp, but in the 'we went, they found ruins and are covering it up' camp. There is a difference.

As far as the 'on topic' response, I'd like to see more of the boundry between the ice cap and the surrounding terran, especially the areas that look like they could contain melted cap. I'm at work now and can't find an example image but will try to do so from home later.

OK now THAT is cool. I had no idea there was such a site. The negative THEMIS data makes it that much more intriguing.

OK I'm staking my claim right now - that's a kimberlite pipe and there's diamonds in them thar' hills.

I'm changing my vote; this feature deserves a REALLY good look...

This was a Tunguska style event, ie a mid-air explosion of a comet, with the resulting organics changing the color of the ground. My bet is that on the surface, there will be little to no difference between the dark and light parts. Or not. I suppose the crater just above that black spot could be some kind of vent. Either way, still worth a HiRise shot.

Either of the residual polar ice sheets.

Well - http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/PSP/di...PSP_003234_2210

What can I say? Yep, I knew that that picture had been taken, just was curious if it'd make it to this topic before iit was released, and sure enough, it did...

Oh, if you guys include pretty exact locations and a scientific rationale, I might be able to sneak some of the targets into the suggestion database...

On the other hand it wouldn't be difficult to think up a good scientific rationale for taking close-ups of at least the cliff transecting the left part of the crater, since this is an unique opportunity to actually see a cross-section through a largish impact crater. We really don't know that much about the structures at depth.

I assume all the recent caves are on the shopping list. Ditto the new craters as identified from MOC imagery, and indeed the crater-wall streaks, as well as the MSL candidates to date.

Obviously, any potential moon observations ( Phil...which sides of which moons do you want to see the most? ) are always a bonus, as well as the whacky stuff ( other spacecraft obs, limb obs etc )

I'm not a geologist, I wouldn't presume to pick somewhere apart from the rest of the Beagle 2 Ellipse, and all potential MPL targets

Doug

For mine, 5 N, 37.1 W.

http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/newimg/V144...&stretch=S2

What's the scientific rational ( not saying there isn't one, you just didn't tell us )

http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r22_s04/im...2/R2200522.html
Ahh..the dark patch?

Doug

Let's get a look inside this cracked region 147.99°W 10.98°N

http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04/images/M0403526.html also seen here http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/m13_m18/im...8/M1800626.html and just missed here http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r10_r15/fu...14/R1400085.jpg

Doh! All this research and MOC already did a decent job in http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r03_r09/im...6/R0601894.html

Look up a few posts Doug.

Ahh right - I thought you were talking about something new

Doug

I would really enjoy seeing some good hires imagery of the Big Crater to the east of Victoria, particularly the west and south rims. Rationale being twofold, one to explore evidence of long ago surface water, particularly fossil shoreline and sediment - potentially mud cracks and eroded layering, and two as a long range target for Oppy.

Further, to quote Edward Schmitz, "The realy interesting thing about big crater, to me, is that it appears to predate the evaporite layers that opportunity has been investigating. The sediments seem to drap over the crater and the original rim is poking through in some spots. If we could investigate those peaks, we might see unaltered rock that pre-date the evaporite layers."

Hear, hear. I second that.

The one we call Ithaca? About 15k ESE of Vic?

Doug

Okay, I see 3 possible craters that could be what you are meaning, but I would need to know which one of the craters it is that you want specifically. , preferably long/lat to at least 1 decimal place, as well as references from large features nearby. Ie, one of the features is due east of Victoria, -2.1 , 354.5E. It is roughly parallel with the top of the large crater seen to the west. If you give me those kinds of details, I can add it. As for the rationale, here's what I will likely put:

The two main craters in this region are unusual, in that they appear to predate the evaporite layers that Opportunity has been investigating. Sediments seem to drape over the crater and the original rim is poking though in some spots. If we could investigate those peaks, we might see unaltered rock that pre-dates the evaporite layers.

Okay, here I go...

Click to view attachment

Un-named Crater, Ganges Chasma

Location: 44.6 deg W 9 deg S

Rationale: to study 1) exposed deep layering in crater wall, 2) erosion features within crater, 3) landslides beneath crater that have spilled material into and across the valley floor and 4) because I love it, it got me "into" Mars all those years ago, and I want to see it through HiRise's eyes!

Big Crater is the crater which some folks on this site have referred to as "Ithaca", and it is located something like 15-20 kilometers to the southeast. Here is a link to the "Getting to Big Crater" thread,

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=3215

Which hopefully makes it pretty obvious. I would like to give firmer lat/lon coordinates, but the only site that allows me that option (http://themis.asu.edu/mars-bin/webmap.pl) seems to be lacking its image database.

Here's a MOC pic that traverses it:

http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12/im...1/E1101328.html

And a context pic of its appearance from Victoria:

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...ost&id=7781

Tim53 once told me that "The peaks on the north rim of the 21km crater are at 2.1S latitude, and 354.8 to 354.84 E longitude".

I hope that helps If you can point me to a reference where I could measure better coordinates I would be happy to do that.

Tuvas, I discovered that Nasa' Worldwind software has a Mars component which allows me to get coordinates.

A box which completely contains Big Crater spans
latitudes -2.07905 to -2.50224
longitudes -5.37642 to -4.95473 (WEST)

A minimal box covering the western and southern edges of the crater spans
latitudes -2.14700 to -2.50224
longitudes -5.37642 to -5.09448 (WEST)

And modifying your rationale slightly to fit the single crater becomes something like:

The main crater in this region is unusual, in that it appears to predate the evaporite layers that Opportunity has been investigating. Sediments seem to drape over the crater and the original rim is poking though in some spots. If we could investigate those peaks, we might see unaltered rock that pre-dates the evaporite layers.

I might also add that something like, "MOLA altimetry further indicates that the floor of the crater is substantially lower (~200 meters) than the region explored by Opportunity, and may preserve evidence of past standing water or ice contemporary with the deposition of evaporite layers elsewhere in Meridiani."

Thanks

I'd like a picture to settle the question of whether that natural arch that was imaged early on really has a hole underneath. If it can't be viewed sufficiently obliquely then maybe a well timed shot with low angle illumination would do the trick? The rationale (apart from sheer curiosity)? Well it might give us information not easily gained otherwise about the mechanical strength of the Martian surface. Or it might show that permanently shaded places on Mars act as ice-traps or have colour differences or other peculiarities arising from shelter from UV and cosmic rays. The Martian caves have been proposed as possible refuges for life. Underneath an arch may not be quite as good a refuge but it is one step more accessible from an imaging point of view, even if still rather awkward.

Hi everyone!
I give my full support to that choice!



Let me just add that the referred thread was, in my oppinion, one of the most hilarious ever seen on this forum...
"Mad, mad, mad... you're all completely mad. I love it!"

And don't forget to include the area between Victoria and Ithaca
so that UMSFers can start mapping out rover routes!

I'm starting to like this...
Rationale?...

Silly me, I was looking the wrong direction, of course "Big Crater" would be big... Anyways, I've added it to the list of suggestions, but as a warning, there is over 10k suggestions, so it might be a while... Oddly enough there's hardly any suggestions in the area, only a handful...

Stu, I'd add yours, but it would be nice if you could give a concise science rational...

Thanks all for your help!

I had one spot I am planning to add, and I found one way that may be useful to help targeting (though I'd like to have this confirmed by Alfred McEwen): see if you can indicate a spot on a MOLA track that crosses it. The MOLA tracks have all been rectified to the IAU 2000 coordinate system so as such they should be more accurate for locating spots on Mars than Viking imagery. They're available for download, you just need to download an executable that can unpack the compressed files.

--Emily

Know I am reviving an old thread.

Coming in for a bit from the cold outer dark of realms beyond the snowline....

But if I could photograph anywhere on Mars it would be to target areas at the southern pole.... for an entire seasonal cycle. Because here be dragons!!!! Processes that have NO Earthly analogy... a science of CO2 geology...................

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/science_them...processes_1.php

Embrace the Spiders of Barsoom.............

Craig

Does the anti-Mars side of Deimos count? If not, I agree, the polar areas and those cool CO2 geysers that may spring up in spring.

>target areas at the southern pole.... for an entire seasonal cycle

I like that idea too. I can envision eventually being able to assemble a movie showing the changes at a single site over the course of a year... that would be really nifty Since MRO is in a polar orbit this may even be feasible.

Yes... a time lapse of one of these areas would be VERY interesting. Could really help to refine the geyser model.

We sometimes get so hooked on following the water that we forget there is an entire set of totally foreign
processes working out there that is governed by the action of Mars other volatile... CO2.

Studying these would be, excuse the pun, very cool!!!!!

Craig