http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/chan.../aw060506p2.xml
12 penetrators, a soft lander and a orbiter all in one!
Full Version: Russia Plans Ambitious Robotic Lunar Mission
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Jun 5 2006, 06:20 AM) 
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/chan.../aw060506p2.xml
12 penetrators, a soft lander and a orbiter all in one!
12 penetrators, a soft lander and a orbiter all in one!
I would be interested to see the design. This may be Russia's first fully post-Soviet mission (Phobos-Grunt has a lot of components from the Phobos '88 spacecraft).
I was pleased to see this... although it does mean I have to revise a page. The plan is about ten years old, and has been kicked around quite a bit, but there was never any money for it. Now there is, I guess. I can't help thinking that a precursor mission to test a penetrator would be a good idea.
See: Surkov et al., Planetary and Space Science, Volume 47, Number 8, 9 August 1999, pp. 1051-1060(10)
Phil
See: Surkov et al., Planetary and Space Science, Volume 47, Number 8, 9 August 1999, pp. 1051-1060(10)
Phil
QUOTE
This will include two penetrators that will be fired toward the Apollo 11 and Apollo 12 landing sites to acquire subsurface data to build on the manned exploration and instrumentation left at those locations 37 years ago by U.S. astronauts.
The Russian flight is also to shower 10 other higher-speed penetrators on the Moon that will form a seismic network to help solve questions about the Moon's origin.
The mother ship for the penetrators is then to drop a soft lander into a south polar crater to search for signs of water ice that would complement data from the planned 2008 U.S. Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing impactor mission to the same region (AW&ST Apr. 17, p. 26).
The Russian flight is also to shower 10 other higher-speed penetrators on the Moon that will form a seismic network to help solve questions about the Moon's origin.
The mother ship for the penetrators is then to drop a soft lander into a south polar crater to search for signs of water ice that would complement data from the planned 2008 U.S. Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing impactor mission to the same region (AW&ST Apr. 17, p. 26).
I sincerely hope they can pull this off but as Phil points out it would be nice to see 1 penetrator working in this way before putting a dozen of those eggs in the one basket.
10 component seismic network - sweet, put one of those on Mars too someone.
QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jun 5 2006, 02:43 PM)
I can't helf thinking that a precursor mission to test a penetrator would be a good idea.
Phil
Phil
Maybe they are planing on using spares from illfated "Mars 96"...but 12 penetrators + 1 lander...ambitious!
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Maybe they are planing on using spares from illfated "Mars 96"...but 12 penetrators + 1 lander...ambitious!
[/quote]
Toma:
They're probably buying some spare penetrators off the Japanese -and JPL may have a set lying about, too!
Bob Shaw
QUOTE(Toma B @ Jun 5 2006, 01:59 PM)
Maybe they are planing on using spares from illfated "Mars 96"...but 12 penetrators + 1 lander...ambitious!
[/quote]
Toma:
They're probably buying some spare penetrators off the Japanese -and JPL may have a set lying about, too!
Bob Shaw
yes, with all these missions coming up, they may even be mass-produced 
People have been talking about penetrators for decades, but not one has ever flown successfully. A test on a cheap launcher would be a really good idea.
Phil
Phil
This quote from the news item:
"This will include two penetrators that will be fired toward the Apollo 11 and Apollo 12 landing sites to acquire subsurface data to build on the manned exploration and instrumentation left at those locations 37 years ago by U.S. astronauts."
How close will they get? I hope they don't actually disturb or even destroy
anything at those landing sites. They are historical places.
"This will include two penetrators that will be fired toward the Apollo 11 and Apollo 12 landing sites to acquire subsurface data to build on the manned exploration and instrumentation left at those locations 37 years ago by U.S. astronauts."
How close will they get? I hope they don't actually disturb or even destroy
anything at those landing sites. They are historical places.
QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jun 5 2006, 02:23 PM)
People have been talking about penetrators for decades, but not one has ever flown successfully. A test on a cheap launcher would be a really good idea.
Phil
Phil
I wish they would put a Mars '96 spare on Phobos-GRUNT, if they have one. Seems like a nice opportunity, since they have the space available.
QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jun 5 2006, 03:23 PM)
People have been talking about penetrators for decades, but not one has ever flown successfully. A test on a cheap launcher would be a really good idea.
So how cheaply could such a test be done? Say you wanted to do a reasonable facsimile of the sort of functions the Russian's are planning. Say a lunar surface penetrator (or two just to cover your bases a little) with nothing more than some minimal components to prove that it worked and enough signalling oomph to say "Hi guys I survived"l back to earth. Anyone care to estimate?
Seems like a very valuable exercise given just how many proposals and plans include penetrators and the fact that none have worked so far.
Coming back to this Luna-Glob thread...
This statement was part of a Novosti press release yesterday:
Russia to launch major lunar mission in 2012
MOSCOW, December 7 2006 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will launch its first major mission to the Moon, Luna-Glob, in 2012 after
a 30-year break from lunar exploration, a space agency spokesman said Thursday.
(...)
Russia is also planning five minor unmanned launches to the Moon between 2008 and 2015.
That last line surprised me. Does anybody have any other information about those 'minor' launches?
Phil
This statement was part of a Novosti press release yesterday:
Russia to launch major lunar mission in 2012
MOSCOW, December 7 2006 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will launch its first major mission to the Moon, Luna-Glob, in 2012 after
a 30-year break from lunar exploration, a space agency spokesman said Thursday.
(...)
Russia is also planning five minor unmanned launches to the Moon between 2008 and 2015.
That last line surprised me. Does anybody have any other information about those 'minor' launches?
Phil
QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Dec 8 2006, 01:04 PM)
Russia is also planning five minor unmanned launches to the Moon between 2008 and 2015.
That last line surprised me. Does anybody have any other information about those 'minor' launches?
That last line surprised me. Does anybody have any other information about those 'minor' launches?
We have a subprogram "Small exploration spacecrafts for fundamental research" , MKA-FKI in Russian. 5 missions totally, mostly astrophysical, but 1-2 spacecrafts can be sent to the Moon. See www.federalspace.ru for more detail, recent news from 06.12.2006.
It seems that "Russia hopes to join the U.S. moon exploration program with technology and know-how" according to an article from the Associated Press (Dec.7) that I read on SPACE.com earlier this week:
http://www.space.com/news/061207_ap_moon_russia.html
http://www.space.com/news/061207_ap_moon_russia.html
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