QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jan 4 2006, 06:21 PM)
Ah, but Richard, science *does* offer us a sense of satisfaction in re the deepest and most important *spiritual* questions -- how does the world around us work, how did we come to be here, and (at least to a certain extent) why are we here?
Yes truly, it is what I mean when I say that science and spirituality have things in common. I would even say that science discoveries in the universe are a choice food for my spiritual and artistic life.
QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jan 4 2006, 06:21 PM)
And as for science *not* attempting to answer questions such as "does a part of us survive after death," I will only say that science,
by its very nature, does not speculate about subjective phenomena for which there is no physical evidence. That's not a limitation of science -- it's a lesson we can learn from science. Perhaps if we spent more of our effots and energy on those phenomena that are phsyically observable, modelable and predictable, we would accomplish more -- and actually come closer to resolving those issues which revolve around the insubstantuial universe that exists, not in reality, but merely within our own heads...
-the other Doug
Why to say that immaterial things are "subjective"? What is subjective is what depends on the person. For instance a dream is subjective, as it exists only in our head and is available for nobody else (although it happened to me to see peoples in dream, and recognize them after in reality).
But it can exist many things which are immaterial, YET objective. The best example is
mathematics. Mathematics deals only with immaterial things, so far as refusing any material evidence. It works exactly the same way than spirituality (only on a different topic). But, despites being immaterial, mathematics are rigorous and objective: two persons, or million of persons, doing the same reasoning or performing the same calculus, in the same room or in two distant planets, find EXACTLY the same results. In this meaning mathematics facts are objective. Despites it is dealing with 100% immaterial things: you cannot locate, see or wheight a number.
If you think well, a soul is no more "immaterial" than a number, and a religious paradise is no more "abstract" than the branes or parallel universes postulated by cosmologists and quantum physicists. Abstract for us, but for observers in these universes, they appear concrete, and it is us in turn who look "abstract".
Simply, a science which ACCEPTS ONLY material evidences and a priori refuses any immaterial fact cannot deal with immaterial things, and cannot draw any conclusion about immaterial facts, their properties, their existence or non-existence. That does not make sure than immaterial things don't exist. We even have some empirical hints that such things exist, for instance the NDE. But today science REFUSES to study such phenomena with the proper methods and frame, so that it is studied only by amateurs whom work is not recognized by the mainstream science, even when it is performed according to full science standards.
You can think, if you want, that souls and paradises don't exist, as until today I am unable to provide you with a clear and immediate evidence of the countrary. But I REFUSE to anybody the right to say that such thing cannot exist because they
a priori REFUSE to examine the proper facts. It is exactly as if somebody was saying that numbers don't exist because we cannot see or weight them.