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Sol 150+, Time marches on...
Stu
post Oct 27 2008, 09:22 AM
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Sol 150 raws are up so this seems like a good time to start a new thread...

Hang on in there Phoenix...


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Deimos
post Nov 6 2008, 04:53 PM
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I'm not aware of any recoverable science data still on board, other than maybe in the MET/Lidar flash. The Biblical Lazarus may have come back with memory intact, but Phoenix comes back thinking it is the day before launch (or some such) and wondering why the touchdown sensors indicate she has landed. And so, Phoenix realizes something has gone very wrong, and begins the Lazarus mode comm strategy.

It looks like the weather situation may have improved, but there is no science and little engineering data to directly confirm that. As Emily said, once there is a good comm session, JPL can regain control. If control is restored, getting into terminal mode science will probably take precedence over anything other than maintaining or improving control. Risks will be avoided due to the already precarious situation. The terminal mode would be very repetitive and would extend the period for which Phoenix returns weather info as long as possible. It is just not obvious Phoenix can handle more than that in Lazarus mode. In the best possible future, the lander's abilities are much diminished, and the ability to respond to conventional science commands is gone, so the commanding strategy is new. So beyond met-related data, expect maybe 30 or so repeated images per sol (sky & frost monitoring) from SSI, and maybe attempts with RAC and maybe attempts with MARDI. And frankly, even that will soon be overly ambitious.

I don't think the situation should be that big a surprise. Before landing, sol 150 was the conventional answer to "how long could the mission last". The power available hit the power needed curve at that time. Weather had been unseasonably favorable, so it looked like Phoenix could go longer before moving to desperation strategies like sacrificing instruments. When the weather turned, it was just to the seasonal pattern that should be in place by sol 150--cloudy and stormy. Sol 200 was never realistic, except maybe as the end of waking up in Lazarus mode for a month, in good circumstances. One factor, by the way, is that it is not just the low power, but also the cold. More power is needed to stay alive; much more was always needed compared to the rovers. Spirit has just set a new record low power level, but still maintained more activity compared to the previous low in winter. Why? It is warmer than in winter. And that is for a tropical location, with RHUs.
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climber
post Nov 7 2008, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE (Deimos @ Nov 6 2008, 05:53 PM) *
...but Phoenix comes back thinking it is the day before launch (or some such) and wondering why the touchdown sensors indicate she has landed. And so, Phoenix realizes something has gone very wrong, and begins the Lazarus mode comm strategy.

Forget me for a very innocent question.
Spirit was nearly lost because her flash memory was full of informations gathered before landing that she didn't need anymore at that time.
Now Phoenix is fooled by the touchdown sensors, an information that, in absolute, could have been deleted.
What are the rationales for keeping this on bord? Can "we" build on these exemples to change, in the future, the post landing strategies regarding these issues?


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Posts in this topic
- Stu   Sol 150+   Oct 27 2008, 09:22 AM
- - Flecks 'ray   There've been a few images of very light frost...   Oct 29 2008, 05:49 AM
|- - 1101001   From the sunlight hours diagram from the last brie...   Oct 29 2008, 07:03 AM
- - Andrei   This decision to stop the RA and TEGA heaters remi...   Oct 29 2008, 09:18 PM
- - nprev   The happy place here is that she made it, she...   Oct 29 2008, 10:14 PM
- - Stu   I know this might sound strange - almost heretical...   Oct 29 2008, 11:37 PM
|- - 1101001   Safe mode. Planetary Society Weblog: Phoenix upda...   Oct 29 2008, 11:47 PM
- - Stu   Hang on in there, Phoenix...   Oct 30 2008, 01:07 AM
- - nprev   ...and if you could teleport that stuff there, you...   Oct 30 2008, 01:28 AM
- - peter59   Mark Lemmon has deleted Sol 152 and Sol 153 from P...   Oct 30 2008, 05:09 PM
|- - Deimos   QUOTE (peter59 @ Oct 30 2008, 05:09 PM) M...   Oct 30 2008, 06:40 PM
- - Stu   Maybe just 'cos there are no images planned fo...   Oct 30 2008, 05:11 PM
- - peter59   QUOTE (Deimos @ Oct 30 2008, 07:40 PM) No...   Oct 30 2008, 07:20 PM
|- - 1101001   Yeah, getting grim. JPL Phoenix Mission News: Pho...   Oct 30 2008, 09:16 PM
||- - bgarlick   > the wake-sleep cycling would have begun at an...   Oct 30 2008, 10:58 PM
||- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (bgarlick @ Oct 30 2008, 02:58 PM) ...   Oct 30 2008, 11:11 PM
||- - Oersted   Too bad they didn't permanently park the arm t...   Oct 30 2008, 11:59 PM
|- - Hungry4info   I'll side with Stu on this one. Sure, It...   Oct 30 2008, 09:46 PM
|- - belleraphon1   QUOTE (Hungry4info @ Oct 30 2008, 05:46 P...   Oct 31 2008, 01:14 AM
- - mhoward   Well said. I would add, one isn't really prayi...   Oct 31 2008, 01:19 AM
|- - 1101001   The NASA Phoenix Twitter Feed is sounding sad but ...   Oct 31 2008, 01:42 AM
|- - PaulM   QUOTE (1101001 @ Oct 31 2008, 02:42 AM) ....   Oct 31 2008, 11:55 PM
- - aggieastronaut   Man, wrapping up some of Phoenix's open-ended ...   Oct 31 2008, 03:14 AM
- - ilbasso   Now I see well why with such dark flames your eye...   Oct 31 2008, 03:30 AM
- - laurele   I know this probably sounds like a dumb question, ...   Oct 31 2008, 06:04 AM
|- - centsworth_II   As I understand it, the extreme cold will physical...   Oct 31 2008, 06:14 AM
- - ElkGroveDan   .....however in the extremely unlikely event that ...   Oct 31 2008, 06:19 AM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Oct 31 2008, 02:19 A...   Oct 31 2008, 06:30 AM
- - paxdan   Wired RIP @MarsPhoenix: The Twitter Epitaph Contes...   Oct 31 2008, 09:22 AM
- - jamescanvin   Phoenix Lazarus mode worked and she was contacted ...   Oct 31 2008, 10:22 AM
|- - ustrax   Stupid I know but I'm avoiding this thread...l...   Oct 31 2008, 07:22 PM
|- - tedstryk   I am really hoping that there some thicker frost d...   Oct 31 2008, 07:57 PM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Oct 31 2008, 09:57 PM) ...   Oct 31 2008, 09:43 PM
- - bcory   Latest image of "Holy Cow" taken Oct. 18...   Oct 31 2008, 08:28 PM
- - laurele   "The great advantage that Spirit has over Pho...   Nov 2 2008, 03:55 AM
|- - BrianL   QUOTE (laurele @ Nov 1 2008, 10:55 PM) Wh...   Nov 2 2008, 03:25 PM
- - Stu   I've written another - probably my last, for o...   Nov 2 2008, 06:50 AM
|- - Greg Hullender   QUOTE (Stu @ Nov 1 2008, 10:50 PM) Hope s...   Nov 2 2008, 07:12 PM
- - nprev   Stu, I thought your poem was excellent! A bit ...   Nov 2 2008, 04:15 PM
- - hortonheardawho   Very nice poem, Stuart. I think the role of a poe...   Nov 2 2008, 08:11 PM
- - Stu   Thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated. I...   Nov 2 2008, 11:10 PM
- - vikingmars   A lot of frost seen on sol 151. => Dedicated t...   Nov 3 2008, 09:49 AM
- - Sunspot   So is Phoenix still "alive" then?   Nov 3 2008, 11:33 AM
|- - MahFL   I don't see any pictures past Sol 151...anyone...   Nov 3 2008, 11:53 AM
|- - peter59   QUOTE (MahFL @ Nov 3 2008, 12:53 PM) I do...   Nov 3 2008, 12:22 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (peter59 @ Nov 3 2008, 01:22 PM) I ...   Nov 3 2008, 02:59 PM
|- - 1101001   Better news from NASA Phoenix Twitter: QUOTE I...   Nov 3 2008, 03:37 PM
|- - MahFL   QUOTE (1101001 @ Nov 3 2008, 04:37 PM) Be...   Nov 3 2008, 03:42 PM
- - centsworth_II   Richard Feynman: "This dying is boring."   Nov 3 2008, 03:43 PM
- - Andrei   Not to be a pessimist now that Phoenix is not doin...   Nov 3 2008, 10:08 PM
|- - mars loon   there is limited communication and team will try f...   Nov 4 2008, 01:24 PM
|- - MahFL   That sounds very very bad. But it's been a gre...   Nov 4 2008, 02:06 PM
- - Phil Stooke   There is still plenty to be done with the images w...   Nov 4 2008, 02:44 PM
|- - MahFL   Seems the sun is now 10 degrees below the horizon ...   Nov 4 2008, 03:28 PM
|- - MahFL   I wonder if they have any new pictures from Phoeni...   Nov 5 2008, 05:41 PM
- - elakdawalla   They don't. As of yesterday they had still no...   Nov 5 2008, 05:44 PM
|- - MahFL   Any idea what the terminal science mode sequence c...   Nov 5 2008, 06:11 PM
||- - fredk   QUOTE (MahFL @ Nov 5 2008, 07:11 PM) Any ...   Nov 5 2008, 06:34 PM
||- - MahFL   I think we are all suprised at how quick the power...   Nov 5 2008, 06:47 PM
||- - helvick   It was always going to be hard to figure out preci...   Nov 5 2008, 10:49 PM
||- - tedstryk   The status updates mention that on the day they tu...   Nov 6 2008, 03:23 PM
|- - PaulM   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Nov 5 2008, 06:44 PM...   Nov 5 2008, 06:25 PM
- - Deimos   I'm not aware of any recoverable science data ...   Nov 6 2008, 04:53 PM
|- - climber   QUOTE (Deimos @ Nov 6 2008, 05:53 PM) ......   Nov 7 2008, 08:40 AM
|- - Deimos   QUOTE (climber @ Nov 7 2008, 08:40 AM) No...   Nov 7 2008, 08:10 PM
|- - climber   QUOTE (Deimos @ Nov 7 2008, 09:10 PM) My ...   Nov 8 2008, 06:14 PM
- - fredk   A few more details in a new New Scientist article,...   Nov 6 2008, 06:32 PM
- - CosmicRocker   I was looking for something that summarized the mi...   Nov 7 2008, 06:30 AM
- - elakdawalla   I don't think Deimos meant that anything that ...   Nov 7 2008, 06:13 PM
- - nprev   I'm curious now. Assuming that somehow the ava...   Nov 7 2008, 09:31 PM
- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 7 2008, 01:31 PM) ...a...   Nov 7 2008, 10:13 PM


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