WCL (Wet Chemistry Lab) sample |
WCL (Wet Chemistry Lab) sample |
Jun 28 2008, 04:18 PM
Post
#46
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3009 Joined: 30-October 04 Member No.: 105 |
<sigh>, in a manner of speaking, this "Mars soil is yummy" comment... snowballed?
--Bill -------------------- |
|
|
Jun 28 2008, 05:02 PM
Post
#47
|
|
Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2785 Joined: 10-November 06 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 1345 |
Well....in one sense the press has picked up on a key finding, if you look at it from the eventually-there-will-be-colonists-on-Mars in a "Farmer in the Sky" point of view: the results of the basic soil of this one analysis help bring Mars down to Earth. I can imagine what kinds of crops might be grown there someday.
The Big Three, NPK (nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium), can be adjusted by large amounts of fertilizer, and trace micronutrients can also be easily added (I use Greensand) to soil. Soil microorganisms and plants can be coaxed to live as long as there aren't any wierd yukkies (funkybad salts like arsenic) or other reservoirs of difficult reactive species. Soil pH, while adjustable, can be a pain to deal with. Ask anyone from Texas trying to grow acid-loving rhododendrons in alkaline caliche. You can do it, but you will be adding soil amendments forever. It is a losing battle, as the background soil will continually be trying to buffer out the tiny acid patch you've installed to grow your rhodys. So when the full results of the soil analysis are complete, (and assuming no funkybad stuff) it will be possible to picture what bags of soil amendments and other materials would be required to mix into martian soil to make it suitable for agriculture. I have no idea why, but I find that concept both fascinating and comforting. -Mike -------------------- Some higher resolution images available at my photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31678681@N07/
|
|
|
Jun 28 2008, 06:28 PM
Post
#48
|
|
Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8785 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Mike, you consistently amaze me with your ability to coin great band names..."The Funkybad Salts" would definitely kick gluteus maximi!
Thanks to Don also for the illumination. From what I gather, a pH reading alone is not enough to extrapolate detailed chemical properties and compositional details on Mars, even when compared to mass spec data. It helps, of course, but it also seems too easy to apply terrestrial analogues too freely, 'cause that's what we know. MSR is a must. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
|
|
|
Jun 28 2008, 06:49 PM
Post
#49
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 813 Joined: 29-December 05 From: NE Oh, USA Member No.: 627 |
I have no idea why, but I find that concept both fascinating and comforting. -Mike Mike... so do I.... "The Farmer in the Sky" has just gotten a tiny bit closer to reality ..... To me this is like being in a hard science fiction story... and so much more to come. Craig |
|
|
Jun 28 2008, 09:55 PM
Post
#50
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3009 Joined: 30-October 04 Member No.: 105 |
Well....in one sense the press has picked up on a key finding... It's still looking better. The last "key finding" in '76 suggested a horridly reactive superoxide mix, and you can add the "salty" sulfates at Meridiani. I'd love to put a chunk of ice into the WCL. At home, I have to "make" soil for my flower and wildflower gardens. Except for paltry 6" of organic "A" horizon, most of my soil is a clay soil derived from the weathering of Pennsylvanian sandtones and shales, so I have to add lime, organics, sand and nutrients to the mix. --Bill -------------------- |
|
|
Jun 28 2008, 11:01 PM
Post
#51
|
|
Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2785 Joined: 10-November 06 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 1345 |
At home, I have to "make" soil for my flower and wildflower gardens. Except for paltry 6" of organic "A" horizon, most of my soil is a clay soil derived from the weathering of Pennsylvanian sandtones and shales, so I have to add lime, organics, sand and nutrients to the mix. I hear that. I've made a garden from Piedmont gray clay (like red clay but lacking in iron). 200 million years of NOT MUCH HAPPENING leached most the nutrients out of the native soil. And it's a natural pH 4.5 as well. But I'll bet Mars doesn't have mosquitos, ticks, Japanese beetles, squirrels, or deer. Sign me up. -------------------- Some higher resolution images available at my photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31678681@N07/
|
|
|
Jun 28 2008, 11:23 PM
Post
#52
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1229 Joined: 24-December 05 From: The blue one in between the yellow and red ones. Member No.: 618 |
Daisy World, here we come!
-------------------- My Grandpa goes to Mars every day and all I get are these lousy T-shirts!
|
|
|
Jun 29 2008, 08:56 AM
Post
#53
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1870 Joined: 20-February 05 Member No.: 174 |
On a world with a probable history of a magma ocean and with well differentiated crust, mantle and core, one problem I've thought of won't be a problem.
Heavy metals. Would the heavy metal content of a chondritic soil or more specifically a carbonaceous chondrite soil cause problems? In California, there's serpentinite and related terrains formed of up-thrust mangled bits of upper mantle. Lots of plants DO NOT like to grow there. They have decidedly special biomes growing on them. CChondrite soils would be worse! |
|
|
Jun 29 2008, 01:54 PM
Post
#54
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3009 Joined: 30-October 04 Member No.: 105 |
I don't know much about heavy-metal content of chondrites. Do you have references?
Although the Mar's convective mantle engine appears to be inactive nowadays, it may have been more active earlier. And certainly Mars has been hot and is differentiated. --Bill -------------------- |
|
|
Jun 29 2008, 05:05 PM
Post
#55
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8-February 04 From: Melbourne, Australia Member No.: 5 |
Full inline quote removed - Admin.
An Undifferentiated Chondrite would have much more heavy metal content. All those Siderophile and chalcophile elements are concentrated in the core of the Earth. Also, look at the fundamental differences of Earth and Mars. However you look at the situation, the bulk density is different, the chemical activity is different. Mars is made of different stuff then Earth is, and then it evolved different again. Never make the mistake of assuming that Mars is "like Earth"... -------------------- - Nick
===================================== Nick Hoffman Mars Specialist 3D-GEO Pty Ltd Melbourne Australia http://whitemars.com "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948) ===================================== |
|
|
Jun 29 2008, 05:44 PM
Post
#56
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
That's sort of a matter of degree, isn't it, Nick? In the great range of like to unlike, Mars is far more like Earth than it is, say, like Jupiter. Or Neptune. Or even Titan.
-the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
|
|
|
Jun 29 2008, 09:52 PM
Post
#57
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1465 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Columbus OH USA Member No.: 13 |
Just saw this article in the Telegraph:
QUOTE Martian dirt is rich in nutrients and capable of sustaining Earthly life, such as turnips and asparagus, surprised scientists announced. But as I understood the press telecon, they've found certain trace elements, not all the nutrients necessary for growing plants (i.e., NPK). Seems like the press is being "led down the garden path" by these press conferences. -------------------- |
|
|
Jun 29 2008, 10:10 PM
Post
#58
|
|
Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2785 Joined: 10-November 06 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 1345 |
Major elements and trace elements (in order), required for plant growth:
C. HOPKNS CaFe Mg B Mn CuZn ClMo ("C. Hopkins Cafe, managed by mine cousin Clomo.") It will be really interesting to see the quantitification of trace elements detected (I assume in ppm). And if there are heavy metals? No problem. Just plant ferns just before your martian bean crop as in this article/video. (Bad luck that most ferns are acid-loving, but maidenhair ferns like pH 7-8) -Mike -------------------- Some higher resolution images available at my photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31678681@N07/
|
|
|
Jun 29 2008, 11:11 PM
Post
#59
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 1-October 06 Member No.: 1206 |
The bizarre flora of long isolated New Caledonia is a fascinating example of long term adaptation to soils rich in often nasty heavy metals and other baddies.
p |
|
|
Jun 29 2008, 11:33 PM
Post
#60
|
|
Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8785 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
...cool mnemonic, Mike!
This whole spin-up is a bit unfortunate, though; expecting to be bombarded with questions from my co-workers tomorrow (been gone for the last 2 weeks attending a class). After all, plants have been grown in lunar soil, but that does not imply that life arose on the Moon, merely that terrestrial life needs certain stuff to exist & the Moon happens to have it. Big difference. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 28th September 2024 - 05:38 AM |
RULES AND GUIDELINES Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting. IMAGE COPYRIGHT |
OPINIONS AND MODERATION Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators. |
SUPPORT THE FORUM Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member. |